Too Much Money To The Face - #475

Rooster Teeth Podcast Post Show: Too Much Money To The Face - #475

Join Gus Sorola, Gavin Free, Burnie Burns, and special guest Kirk Johnson as they discuss microtransactions, GTA, and more!

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Comments (43)

  • WillKovach FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    4 days ago

    Valve has been updating DotA consistently for years.  They say that Valve gave up making games in favor of just making money with steam, but DotA is a popular e-sport in which balance is insanely important.  Can't be easy to keep it up to date.  Plus,  DotA 2 is the gold standard for how to approach micro-transactions in my opinion.  They don't affect the balance of the game at all, but they are cool enough that the game will continue to make money as long as they keep making cosmetics and the game remains popular.

  • FruitCakeHD FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    4 weeks ago

    Speaking as a person who bought the game only a month ago and hasn't spent a single cent more than the original cost, I still tend to find GTA Online an enjoyable experience. Granted it can seem like 90% of the things in Online are still miles above my head the experience of putting my nose to the ground and building my own criminal enterprise to be pretty enjoyable. While all the basic mechanics of the game (driving, shooting, etc...) are solid the overall structure seems to be that of going through the grit to get to the glam. I can't tell you how happy I was when I finally got enough money to buy not just a high-end apartment, but a stilted high-end apartment (which is mechanically the same as other apartments just more expensive) and got to open up to more and more, ever escalating, criminal escapades. The fact that not every single item is within the grasp of the player (who doesn't want to spend tons of money) is an intentional play to A: Get the player to keep grinding (and maybe spend money, sure) but B: Make every single step up seem significant.

  • JforJack FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    GTA Online is a fucking dreadful money grab. Anyone that defends it is just inclined too because they've spent hundreds of dollars on it.

  • PacMonster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    Burnie the problem with saying, "I just wanted to buy the characters and play" is it assumes the game hasn't already been negatively impacted to encourage people to want to do that. The game becomes less fun when game progression becomes needlessly grindy to unlock characters that are offered for real money. It would be one thing if we were talking about an expanded Star Wars character roster of lesser known or less popular characters that were being sold as extras for people to play as. Battlefront was locking Darth Vader behind a paywall, one the franchise's most iconic characters. To prove my point, because Dice decided to turn off the microtransaction system right before launch the progression system in Battlefront was derided by everybody because of how stingy it was with rewards, taking hours upon hours to unlock characters. They removed the easy outlet to speed gameplay up but kept the bullshit grindy mechanics in tact which drove players nuts.


    Also, the "it's just cosmetic" argument is really not a great argument for loot boxes. All those kinds of cosmetic items USED to be in the game that you could unlock. It made players want to spend time in a game to get those kind of items. Putting them into a glorified slot machine system takes away any sort of achievement you could get from earning those cosmetic items from gameplay. It also removes any sense of agency you could have if you are unable to select exactly what cosmetic items you want. The point being, you say cosmetic items don't affect gameplay but in reality they do. Game mechanics are designed with intent if things are removed from the game to be sold back to players for real money then it will negatively impact the entire game to encourage players to do that. Secondly, in multiplayer focused games that involve character customization, cosmetics play a big role in establishing identity online. Why do you think people are even willing to pay money for skins for weapons or costumes for their characters? Because they want to look cool. Cosmetics are just as part of the gameplay experience for many people as the physics engine, gameplay mechanics, etc.


    Also Burnie games frequently ARE more expensive than $60. That might be the common base price for a retail game but it's pretty much industry standard now for games to be sold at $70-$100 for different editions which include additional content. Add onto that season passes and now this bullshit layer of microtransactions being pushed into full retail games and it's frankly nonsense to suggest games haven't risen in price to match costs. Nobody is forcing Activision to spend $300 million on advertising, hiring Hollywood actors or famous orchestras. Minecraft made billions from shitty looking blocks on a budget of one Swedish dude. Due to digital storefronts game developers no longer have to worry about the cost of manufacturing and distribution of hard copy media. And technology advances have made the actual pipeline of how games get made far simpler where companies can purchase their physics engine, game engine, etc from third parties and spend all their time just working on design.

  • sam23694 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    GTA Online is one of the biggest disappointments in the gaming industry for me. They have the opportunity to have one of the best online communities with thousands of active players. They could even get away with a subscription based model, and yet they have opted for a rich man's playground instead. 


    The only way for a normal person to play, or at least a normal person that isn't willing to throw a disposable income at each update, is to score a lobby with a hacker willing to give you money. That is the only way I have ever been able to play the latest updates. I find it completely unacceptable that you have to purchase a useless expensive hanger to use the vehicles that you can call remotely via a menu anyway.


    I love RDR to death, but RDR 2 is going to be the biggest controversy of the year. Battlefront 2 is going to be totally eclipsed by RDR 2 Online and the microtransaction system it has. 

    • Miglupis FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      You talk about GTA Online like it's some failed indie game. It's still one of the best selling games and it's getting up there with Skyrim. You don't like it? Don't play it. For every sullen hipster shouting into the emptiness about how GTA IV was better, there are hundreds of people who play GTA: O daily and pour money into it, ensuring Rockstar will continue to churn out content.


      Your supposition that the only way to play is either spend money or find a hacker is so laughable. It wasn't even true back before the business centric updates that add dozens of ways to make money dynamically in the open world, with friends and random players. Just because a game doesn't serve up everything on a platter and gives the option of buying a shortcut doesn't make it bad, especially when this results in years of updates and weekly to monthly content drops.


      As for your brilliant prediction that RDR 2 will be controversial, yeah. But so is every Rockstar game. Probably not for its MT model though, likely for some torture sequence or something along those lines. They built their company on controversy, so they don't care if the vocal minority wets their pants crying about their game, be it the in game currency purchases or the fact that you can pull a guys tooth out to get him to talk. Sorry to break it to you.

    • sam23694 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      At no point did I claim GTA Online was a failing business or Indie title. That is absurd. Nor did I mention GTA 4, so why even bring it up?


      It seems from your comment you are either defending a title you have spent hundreds on in microtransactions or you have only watched Youtubers play it, with only a few hours under your belt. If you have played hundreds of hours you would clearly understand that you require vehicles and weapons that cost millions in order to compete with other players in freeroam, or even in races. As they discussed in this video, microtransactions are present for players that can't commit the time. But, the microtransactions in this game do not deliver enough content for the money spent. I mean $15 to kill a player on the map once with a orbital strike? You can't be serious.


      You can disagree with that as much as you want. But, this had been a problem for thousands of players for years. You can easily search Reddit or any other forum and find others discussing the terrible business model in this game. A discussion that has lasted years, over multiple generations, tends to be an actual valid concern more often then not. Unless of course those thousands of players are all just sullen hipsters shouting in the void simply because you share a viewpoint contrary to theirs. Grow up, and drop the arrogant attitude. 


      My comment is not discussing whether Rockstar benefited financially, my comment is about how disappointed I was at the missed opportunity for a great online community. If Rockstar embraced a more logical and less insidious progression system through vehicles and weapons, and embraced community made content instead of shutting it down whenever they legally can, then I could only imagine the kind of player base and content that game would generate. Even beyond what it currently does now.


      And as to my RDR prediction, it is just that, a prediction. It is no more or less valid then your counter to my prediction.

  • Kxpuc FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    Bernie is looking for cheat codes and wanting them in micro transaction form

  • ElefanteRosado FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Christopher A.

    1 month ago

    My friend got the black sleeves biker jacket and he put it on the marketplace as soon as he found out how much it was lol.

  • hunter559 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    Poor Kirk

  • byndgrvemnd FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    with gta 5 online, i used to play it leisurely but when the heists started it became mroe and more difficult to play. i didnt have anyone to do heists with seirously so i couldnt get any money to get any of the vehicles and with levling up i got it when it was on the 360 and switched over tot he one and im still under level 60. so tryingto go around with people who only wish to kill is just pointless. 


  • MrWykydtron FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    I think one of the earliest examples of EA doing something like this was Burnout Paradise. There was a DLC that allowed you to unlock every car in the game. You could use any car you wanted, online or offline, by just buying the DLC.


    I only bring that up because I don't ever remember anyone complaining then that it was a problem.

  • sprite1337 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    I Think they locked some characters so that new players woulndn't be playing them because the characters are supposed to seem powerful. 

  • Deployed FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    The price of $50-80 during the 80s and 90s  was set based on a market projection that was significantly lower than it actually turned over. If anything, video games are now at a reasonable price based on costs and we were ripped off horrendously back then.


    I refuse to accept that a product which costs significantly less than most movies "deserves" to have a price which is multiple times more expensive than any version of its retail price. 


    There is a reason why indie games are selling for so little money. Whilst that wing of the industry is built of established tech as opposed the 80's developing cycle, it still more accurate in costs can current non-EA sports triple A products.

  • Quizzical_Quark FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    GTA is ridiculous, you have to pay real money for a car in a game about stealing cars. I refuse to pay a single cent for any of those money generators, even though I know it doesn't matter. 

  • cjamesmma FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    i cant wait for the flying horse dlc in red dead 2.

    • Meiksesera FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      I'm mostly excited for Horse Armor.

  • ESCtheCTRL FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    The problem is that you can't spend 20 bucks to unlock everything in battelfront 2 it takes several thousand.

  • shawncouch88 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    I remember when I played GTA online there was this truck that you could buy for like $3000, spend $1000 on this special horn, then sell it for $11,000. That's how I made all my money at the start. I churned out like..$10m in a few days before they patched it. 

    • Miglupis FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      That was a fairly recent one. Back in the day, you could sell a motorcycle for 500k, then switch sessions from the sale menu and it would respawn you outside the shop on the motorcycle with the money. Heck, even a couple months ago you could glitch out director mode and buy 50 $3 million supercars for free, then switch back to normal server and sell them. But the safest (if slightly slower) way to make bank is afk playlists. I make about $2mil/day doing nothing when I'm not playing. Just play on my PC and earn money on my PS4.

  • ycart59 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    When they said GTA V came out in 2013, I had to stop and recalculate all of my memories, because I clearly remember watching the GTA IV videos they were making in anticipation of V coming out. It can't have been that long ago. Don't tell me such things.

  • matt_harkin36 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    One problem with something like a console game is they are all the exact same price (in terms of up front cost) it doesn't really seem to vary regardless of the quality or content. Of course this changes when you look at pc gaming and add indie titles to the mix.  

  • rimbley2032 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    Are they shit talking Quidd? Isn't that a sponsor for a lot of Rooster Teeth family content?

  • Steve-O FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    I started playing gems of war 2 years ago after Geoff talked so much about it. Im level 1110 now play daily still and also in the #1 guild. Its quite addictive.

  • greiton FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    so was kurt even there or was that just a cardboard cut out? 

  • dmc23 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    Is the Star Wars card game Geoff plays Force Collection I wonder? If it is it’s not just about collecting cards. There’s much more to it.

  • forest1wolf FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    that orbital cannon Gavin is talking about in GTA 5 is dumb expensive. It cost $10 to fire once without targeting systems, if you want it to aim lock on someone it cost $15. For a single use $15 to kill one person. I always make a point to tell people I spent $15 American buckaroos to kill them once. (Obviously I didn't buy gta cash, but i still have a billion from the last hacker wave.)

  • Chaotic_Monk FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Bullshit Artist

    1 month ago

    Also, for the negatives and more insidious side of cosmetic micro transactions look at Jim Sterling's channel, at the very least it's another point of view whether you agree with it or not

  • Chaotic_Monk FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Bullshit Artist

    1 month ago

    When they turned off micro transactions in Battlefroint, they announced that it basically wouldn't effect their projected earnings so I refuse to believe that AAA games need micro transactions to be viable

  • Yukito_097 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold That Kool Guy

    1 month ago

    I've bought into some GTA V DLC stuff in the past. Not everything that comes out but a few things each DLC that really appeals to me. Never spend too much on it but still have spent a fair amount overall and I feel it was worth it 'cause I've enjoyed it so much.

    And then the latest update came out and two of the achievements have turned me off from ever buying into any of their DLC again - the bloody Elite challenges and Criminal Mastermind ones ><

    • Miglupis FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      What the heck? The two achievements have zero to do with microtransactions. It's literally just criteria to fulfill in heist missions. Same as the other heists.

    • Yukito_097 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold That Kool Guy

      1 month ago

      Because I've been turned off from the game in general because of them.

      EDIT: To clarify, I'm not saying the achievements turned me off from the micro-transactions. I'm saying that despite the time, effort and money I've put into the game already, the acheivements have turned me off from and, even if I were to continue playing, I'm now less-inclined to put more money in. It was a comment made during their discussion of bullshit achievements.

  • jeremythelee FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    Gavin is 100% right. GTA is dominated by microtransactions. The highest paying heist the most you can earn is $660,000 in game. But it also costs $110k to play the heist and do setups which takes hours. There really is no efficient way to make money. But I refuse to pay for shark cards. I was considering it, but my game errored out after a heist and I never got my money. Support said "too bad". So fuck them. Why would I buy in game currency when you don't give a shit if I'm screwed out of the in game currency I actually worked for playing your game? 

    • Miglupis FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      tldr; I easily make 2+million a day with afk playlists that run no risk of your account being banned (as you do if you duplicate cars or glitch or hack.) 


      I mean, there are easy and legit ways to make money hand over fist. AFK playlists. Rubberband your thumbstick forward (I designed and 3d printed idler wedges for my ps4), find a friend, leave your console running when you go to bed, wake up with $550k. I have two PS4s running this consistently for the past couple months and my main account owns everything from every update at market price (no discount) and I'm currently at $103 million. Seriously, even if you don't have a second console or even a friend, hang around here, post on reddit, there are plenty of people lamenting their lack of cash. Downtime in the game is money lost, so let it earn you money while you sleep and work. 


      As for support not giving you your heist winnings, how many times has that happened to you? I'm pretty sure the only time they will reimburse is for a vehicle loss, as in selling it and getting nothing. But I'm also pretty confident every 8 year old was trying to take advantage of this so they might have changed policies. 

    • jeremythelee FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      @Miglupis Your assertion only defends my point. the only efficient means of getting money is to not play. whether it's afk exploits or buying shark cards. 

    • Miglupis FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      That's just incorrect though. There are plenty of non-grind ways to make money at this point. Import/export, bunker, smugglers run, These can be done as a grind, but they make plenty of money a lot of times accumulating while you play other stuff. Also the new heist is playable with two players and the first act pays out a minimum of $600k, it's fun and varied. The third act will pay close to 900k to each player. So, your assertion that 'there are no good ways to make money' is blatantly false. I only suggested my method because so many people whinge about not being able to have time to play to earn money (which is also idiotic, import/export, once your garage is filled, you can limit which cars you sell to the high end ones and make an easy 180k/hr with a friend or two. If you have a cargobob, it's even easier and faster. If you are getting griefed by players, do a lag switch, get your laptop, open a youtube video, then ctrl+click a recommended video about 20 times. Within a couple seconds, your gta session will empty, and only friends will be able to join, it won't autopopulate the server.) In the end, I feel like your main beef was with you being glitched out of a heist payout and rockstar not ponying up for one what is possibly the most basic tactic any grade schooler would use to try to get something for free. (not saying it didn't happen, just saying that is obviously why they didn't assist you. At least a glitched vehicle is easily verifiable on your account.)

    • sam23694 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      You are defending his point by describing ways you make money. The argument is that you shouldn't have to find a way to make money by running a console constantly while offline. I don't dispute that you make a ton of money that way, but the game shouldn't force you to do that. It forces you to do that by lacking natural and free progression systems.


      Clearly you can look at the highest payout methods, versus the cost of items in the game and see it is clearly a game abused by microtransactions. Just humor me for a moment and imagine what the game would be like if everything was ten times cheaper. Sure, you wouldn't have the bragging rights of billions of dollars gained through an afk exploit, but the thousands of dedicated players in a more friendly online community would easily replace that.

    • Miglupis FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      @sam23694 You clearly didn't read my second comment where I outline the numerous ways you can make money if you want to. As for your '10 times cheaper' analogy, I have played daily since launch on PS3. I have my original character, I have made it through the buggy first year, the hacker waves, the mass bannings. Trust me when I tell you that I have seen when every level 1 player has millions if not billions. It's a mess. Having a tiered reward system, even if it seems harsh is needed in a game like this. If everything were cheap, there would be no consequences to griefing, there would be no reason to play beyond a couple of days after each update. There would also be no updates because it wouldn't be enough of a cash cow for Rockstar to keep pouring new content into it. I have outlined multiple ways to make money, either by playing the game, or by using afk. Basically, there is no excuse for being poor and crying about it as you are. Don't have time to play? AFK. Do have time to play? There are ten ways to make bank without having to repeat a mission. 


      You are in danger of drowning in denial if you are under any disillusion that giving every player a billion dollars would make the community happy and friendly. I've seen it. Multiple times. The people who grief are usually the ones who have enough money to buy everything and are bored with it. Once you take out the act of earning something, and just give it to everyone, suddenly the only form of gameplay in an open world lobby is griefing. Ever hear of endgame content? That is what the yacht, the super cars, the jets, the crazy vehicles are. An apartment, office, bunker, those are early to mid game goals. Just because something is hard to get doesn't make it unfair. Neither does allowing someone to shortcut it with real money. GTA is such a sandbox it is the only game I know of that can thrive with this model. The advantage gained by buying shark cards is instant gratification and a reduction in the time you need to spend playing the game. Thing is, the game is fun. Why would you want to reduce that? Before you accuse me of being hypocritical by using afk exploits, I have played since day 1. I have was rich before afk playlists, heists, businesses. I was rich from playing the game. I'm at 3000 hours in GTA Online (conservatively) and I choose to run the playlists because I have learned how I enjoy playing the game by playing every aspect of it. 

    • sam23694 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      The TL;DR is that you seem to have "expert" knowledge about what happens when any player has billions and the game is no longer fun for anyone. That seems like an odd position to take for a person that uses AFK playlists to advance. That is clearly a loophole that skips standard progression, which is basically the same thing anyway. As a player that has used hackers to gain money in the game, I don't really see a difference between that and standing AFK. Sure, you might not be banned by Rockstar like a hacker would, but you are gaining money for doing nothing.


      You seem to think that grinding through 180k and hour is a great income, when most of the content you progression towards costs millions. You also seem to think every player having access to a wide range of toys to compete with the other players with and equally large range would get boring too quickly. Yet GTA 4, which had no progression system to speak of and at best one helicopter with miniguns, was played by hundreds of players for hundreds of hours. Every player I have encountered with over a hundreds hours in the game has agreed with me when I have said I wish the freeroam was actually free to roam.


      What I'm trying to tell you is that your explanation only suffices to prove the idea that the progression system in GTA Online is terrible, and actively ruins the community that has been dedicated enough to stick with it this far.


      Your explanation also seems to focus on telling us about how intelligent you are for making a lot of money in GTA. Using methods that are logically equivalent to hacking. Nobody is impressed, despite your bright pink jets and flying cars.

  • McAngusYoung FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    Burnie, just so you know, even when Battlefront 2 had microtransactions, you couldn't directly buy the Heroes.


    You could buy the crates, which would give you in-game currency, but no direct unlocks.

  • Granki FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    1 month ago

    .


    • matt59438 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

      1 month ago

      ..

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