There's no Gaston in the original Beauty and the Beast, and it doesn't seem like RWBY is drawing on the Disney versions of any of the source material.
Malochroma #1 Mollymauk Fan
#33667616 - 3 months ago
Musicians "get away" with sampling because of licensing and music industry shenaniganry. If you don't get permission from the content's copyright holder and do the appropriate licensing shit, you can get into all sorts of legal trouble. Ask Biz Markie; he used a sample after being denied, and end up getting sued by the songwriter and having his entire album pulled. (I mean, shit, just recently Taylor had to give a songwriting credit to the folks of Right Said Fred for using a riff from "I'm Too Sexy" in that mediocre mess of a single. She doesn't "get away" with jack, that's not how copyright works.)
And that's not how public domain works. Public domain refers to anything not under copyright, or things whose copyright has expired. Basically, as of right now, anything before 1923 is fair game. On January 1, 2019, works published in 1923 and on are fair game as well, and on and on, because starting from 1923 copyright has had a 95 year expiration date. That's why there are so many Sherlock or Alice in Wonderland adaptations; they were both published before the copyright expiration laws were passed in '23, and so are already in the public domain. Same with Wizard of Oz.
Now, allusions and such are gray enough in copyright area where one might be able to get away with some character allusions. I doubt a Great Gatsby (published in '25, so won't be public domain until 2021) character would get RWBY slammed, due to how old it is and how the vagueness of RWBY allusions creates a bit of a shady area regarding stuff like Fair Use. But allusions really recent characters or intellectual properties owned by the sort who really like to keep a tight grip in their IPs (IE Disney) might cause more troubles.
Source: I know a surprising amount about copyright law.
Malochroma #1 Mollymauk Fan
#33667671 - 3 months ago
Yes. I do understand that. That's why I brought up Great Gatsby (an American novel and not anything close to a fairy tale) as an example of a possible allusion. It's why I brought up the Wizard of Oz, another non-fairy-tale that RWBY has been getting a lot of mileage out of.
I have a few dozen RWBY OCs in various stages of completion, all based on wildly different things. I understand how allusions work, and I don't appreciate the snideness.
#33667725 - 3 months ago
Trying to get back to the topic of Lionheart's "fearfulness".
***Episode spoilers ahead***
Assuming Watts is only able to listen in on what's happening in Lionheart's office. He would hear what was happening in regards to Qrow knowing where Spring is, and Leo would likely have to send that info to Watts so as to not raise suspicion with his captor.
However Qrow seemed to be emphasizing his scroll as he was leaving, and Leo typed something into his phone before disconnecting it. Could be him sending the map data to Watts, and/or some kind of message to Qrow.
Anyone else thing that he may have tried to sneak a message to him? As part of Oz's inner circle he likely knows about Oz's reincarnation trick, and I doubt he would give up so easily. I think Watts has something against him so that he has to comply, at least for now.
#33667749 - 3 months ago
Ah yes in canada it's 50 years after death, in USA it's 70 years after death. point being there are original ideas of sleeping beauty of these detailed events happened before 1923 in other versions of sleeping beauty. DISNEY is not original to the idea of the story, events or anything about sleeping beauty. This concept, character ideas, story everything was slightly changed in every version of sleeping beauty, disney could not sue for anything. As well as RWBY has already admitted the characters are inspired by fairytales characters with original twist/changes ... meaning RWBY has all rights to "summarizes, in their own words and add their own opinions to any character". There's hundreds of versions of fairytales and know one can traces their origins (accurately) or who did it first, there's a german version, Italain version and so on. By copy right law summarizing in own words, adding your opinion and admitting to source is legal.
#33667753 - 3 months ago
There's speculation on Spring being Lionheart's daughter. If true then then that would mean that he traded Amber' life in hopes that his Maiden daughter would be spared. Yes, it would be very terrible of Lionheart to do that but what would you do if it was your daughter that was in danger?
#33668024 - 3 months ago
So, first post. Just wanted to say hi, I love RWBY and I'm so excited for Volume 5.
Spring being Lionheart's daughter would be ace, but it also really shows how he'd willingly be manipulated by the enemy, rather than admit everything to Qrow. But I suspect, Salem has promised him his daughters life for his silence, if that be the case.
Malochroma #1 Mollymauk Fan
#33669151 - 3 months ago
It's already the length of a standard anime episode, and we're getting 14 episodes this year instead of the usual 12. I'd say we're pretty flush for RWBY as is.
And yes, I adored it. I like when RWBY does shit I wouldn't have predicted like that.
#33670022 - 2 months ago
Something that has been nagging at me for a while now was Ozpin's fight with Cinder in vol. 3. as Ozpin seemed to be winning, or at least have the advantage, as he was able to block all of Cinders attacks while landing several of his own, then Oz drops his bubble shield, Cinder fires her laser, cut to black, fights over, Ozpin's dead. I'd say this means that either: a) Oz is completely incompetent and got his aura burned out and died in that one attack or b) something happened that we weren't supposed to see yet. I lean more toward option b. The best thing that I can come up with is that everything that happened with the maiden at the end of vol. 3 was Ozpin's plan (not the Vale being burned to the ground part), but we only got to see part of it. I think the plan was to give Pyrrha a small part of the maiden power then let Cinder get the rest and then fake Pyrrha's death at Cinder's hands because now Cinder believes, and therefore Salem as well, that she is a full maiden when she's not, preventing her from getting the relic, and she believes the person with the rest of the maiden power is dead, protecting them from attack. How exactly Oz did this I don't know but we don't have a lot of information on who or what Oz is exactly or what his abilities are, but I do remember hearing somewhere that his cane has the ability to store time, whatever that means, but I can't confirm that. Or he "died" to Cinder so that he could quasi-posses her into "killing" Pyrrha while Cinder has no idea Oz was in her head and the fight as we saw it is how Cinder remembers it due to Oz's influence while what really happened was different. And as for Ruby seeing Cinder kill Pyrrha, Oz needed everyone to believe that Pyrrha is dead, not just the villains, for the plan to work, but what he didn't expect was for Ruby to go full silver eye's, forcing him to reincarnate in Oscar. Pyrrha was also in on this plan but was hesitant to do it because she knew how much she'd be hurting her friends by convincing them she's dead. And for those of you who say that you can't bring back a dead character without it destroying all emotional weight (I believe you can, it's just easy to do wrong), after seeing how her apparent death has hurt them, she's going to have to face her friends and tell them "I lied to you".
TL/DR: At the end of the Ozpin/Cinder fight, Ozpin pulled some shenanigans, and this is my idea for what happened.
Malochroma #1 Mollymauk Fan
#33670034 - 2 months ago
I've made my feelings on Pyrrha coming back pretty clear, but if I had to choose a res method, Pyrrha being complicit in faking her death (while highly unlikely and extremely hard to justify in Volume 3's timeline and Pyrrha's characterization) would be what I would choose. (Actually I would choose "Force Ghost Pyrrha in Cinder's mind due to Aura shenanigans," but, you know, this would be a second choice.)
Because it means that Pyrrha's death still means something. Not in what it resulted in, necessarily, but the fact that Pyrrha lied to make it happen. PYRRHA, of all people. It'd create some really good character development without sacrificing any that came of it; in fact, Jaune's grief and anger would create a strong narrative conflict as the two have to come to grips with Pyrrha's deceit and what that means for their relationship. It would also meaningfully impact how we, the viewer, see Pyrrha, without wasting her death scene.
Like I said, HIGHLY unlikely and it would be really hard to justify, but it could be a way to make it work without making her death completely narratively superfluous.
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33670045 - 2 months ago
Her death even with a revival will still have meaning and wouldnt be narratively superfluous.
Its hard to say exact details because method and length of time are all factors in it.
But Her death even if she is brought back has clearly effected RNJR and that doesnt go away just because she is back.
I actually recall a story on Fanfiction though I dont recall the details that dealt with this. Where a character died and came back. The people had moved on and it tore them up inside dealing with this because for the character it was like nothing had changed but for them a LOT had.
We also have to acknowledge what we take away from something may not be what RT meant at all.
So the meaning people are giving Pyrrha's death may not be what CRWBY meant or what they wanted to get across.
I saw this with HalkO when it was revealed that Louise had access to everyone's memories but wasnt aware of it nor seeking it. One Poster was so creeped out about this he went on long rants about how it wasnt okay. To the Point the author said No that is how he meant and they were taking things beyond the things he meant.
So there is a lot of factors involved here.
#33670050 - 2 months ago
I really don't see how they could've effectively and believably faked her death. To me, it's needlessly complicated. Killing her off just like that makes more sense. And also, Ruby climbing the tower was incidental. I doubt anyone could've foreseen that.
Third, I personally believed Ozzy pulled a Ben Kenobi here, and died on purpose, to escape Salem's clutches and lay low for a while. I doubt anybody knew or even suspected Oscar was meant to house Ozzy's spirit or whatever.
#33670083 - 2 months ago
I should have done a better job stating this, but Oz didn't mean for Ruby to be there, it just kind of worked in his favor, until it didn't.
This was more of an Ozpin theory that just happened to involve Pyrrha based on that Oz seemed to be winning his fight with Cinder, then it cuts away and he's dead. I don't see why he would need to pull a Kenobi if he's going to win the fight and succeed in protecting the maiden power or lose the fight and lose the maiden power.
Edit: The Pyrrha stuff I mostly came up with while I was writing because if Oz purposefully lost the fight and then Pyrrha died, her death IS Ozpin's fault he knew Pyrrha wouldn't be able to run away after he had basically told her that if Cinder got the maiden powers, a lot of people would die. It's why he asked her to be the maiden because he knew she would always try and protect people, regardless of the cost to herself.
Malochroma #1 Mollymauk Fan
#33670119 - 2 months ago
Yeah, sure, within the in-universe context, it sucks that she died and came back. But metanarratively, it was a waste. Especially with the relationship between Jaune and Pyrrha. Part of the tragedy was that they never got a proper resolution to their budding romance, and if she comes back, well, there's your chance to have a long heartfelt talk and smooch, Nikos!
My stance on character death and resurrection is this: do it with purpose. The death itself has to have serious impacts on all three levels of the narrative, impacts that couldn't have been told without it, otherwise the resurrection renders it permanently moot and you might as well have just stuck her in a coma for a few months. That's why, as impossible as it is within the narrative, Splinted's idea appeals to me. Pyrrha taking an active part in the faking of her own death would have serious implications for her long-term character arc and her relationships with other characters in ways that only work if the audience and the character both believe she is truly dead. Pyrrha nobly dying and then having that noble death undone because magics or whatever doesn't have that same punch. It just ends up feeling like a cop-out, like the writers wanted to have their death cake and eat it too.
Well, they don't. I take that cake and I throw it on the ground. And I throw your cake on the ground, too. All cakes go straight to the ground.
(That's also why I like the "Pyrrha in Cinder's head" theory. Not only is Pyrrha still pretty goddamn dead, but it allows for an interesting and unique character dynamic that couldn't have been gained without the death and subsequent absorption of Pyrrha's Aura; Cinder, stuck with the voice of the woman she killed. Pyrrha, stuck in the head of her murderer. The two clashing ideals would make for some awesome character development for both of them! Unlikely, yes, but really interesting.)
Perhaps its simply because I have such a different way of viewing stories that we can't see eye-to-eye on this. So many other people are so much more invested in the in-universe story, relating to the characters and their journey on an intimate, emotional level. Meanwhile I'm all up in the technical, the metanarratives, the thematic cohesions. I can't relate to the characters on an emotional level, so the idea of a character dying and coming back doesn't seem like a roller coaster of emotions. It just seems like a waste of a season and a half of potential character development. Like, no! No! You could have used that wordcount far more efficiently!
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33670135 - 2 months ago
I can respect the difference even though I disagree.
I dont see it as a waste of a season and a half of Potential Character development. Rather I see it as fodder for Development.
So long as they dont just go POOF she is back then its not a waste. Jaune has clearly had issues over this whole thing and that if RT is decent writers isnt just going to go away even if next episode they revive Pyrrha.
I see the meta too but I also see the emotions which maybe our issue.
I also see how issues can arise that would sate your desires from the revival.
Watts is being hinted for Victor Von Frankenstein and he has shown himself to be petty and arrogant.
If it turns out its true Watts humalited by RNJR crafts a Pyrrha look alike to attack them. Its meant to be a Flesh Golem more or less like From DnD. But Ruby has part of or all of Pyrrha's souls so eventually the soul gets attached to the body in a sense reviving her. But Pyrrha has to deal with her new body being made from others and the psychological issues from being dead and revived.
Right there is fodder for some SERIOUS character growth on everyone's side as they refigure it out of who Pyrrha is.
So for me I cant say its a waste at all because I can see hundreds of ways they can revive her and for it to be major issues.
And to be clear I am not trying to start the Pyrrha debate over again.
I am just trying to say I see potential both story wise and character wise for them to revive her.