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RWBY Volume 4 In-Depth Discussion and Spoilers: Finale Week

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  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold He who is found yet lost

    #33542594 - 1 week ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    What SA says. I come from a warrior lineage myself William Wallace? yeah my ancestor FOUGHT him that is just the tip of the iceberg of warrior line that runs in my family.

    But the warrior is member by member instead of every single one of us.


    We also know Jaune has seven sisters it might be a case of Male heir.


    And SA what you proposed wouldnt have been cooler or gone over better in fact very much the opposite considering what they were aiming for.

    That is the problem with Jaune they do it right most of the time people just complain PERIOD. If Jaune had noticed and tried to stop it then it falls to Oz if Oz doesnt do anything then it becomes a dropped ball if Ozpin does and he gets brushed aside then it undermines the power boost of the maiden that is hinted at with the small preview of the fight we got same goes if it becomes cat and mouse.

    There is NO good way to do that scene other then the way they did and preserve the tension and horror they were going for.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542597 - 1 week ago

    In reply to Ashandarei22

    I don't think farmers. It's hinted that Jaunes family is well off, what with them being able to afford yearly trips to a Mistral.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542602 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Not to cramp on you being related to William Wallace, but I think that's kind of a 'everyone is related to the queen of norway' thing.


    And I'm just voicing my opinion on Jaunes scene in the secret basement. That's all.

  • HunterBlaine

    HunterBlaine FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542604 - 1 week ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    In reply to revanninja

    Well see what i mean is Jaune is aware of his families past, meaning he was probably told stories about his sword at least and it's just odd that aura was never so much as mentioned is all i was saying there. 

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542607 - 1 week ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    That's a mechanical type of thing, I don't think it would really come up, or if it did, it would catch Jaunes attention.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold He who is found yet lost

    #33542611 - 1 week ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    Hard to say why it could be he was just told stories and not the details is all.

    In reply to SAmaster

    Uhm read again I didnt say i was related to him I said he FOUGHT him.

    Nice reading skills there.

    And also my line contains Kings and Knights going as far back as there HAS been kings and Knights.


  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542617 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Okay my bad I misread that.

  • HunterBlaine

    HunterBlaine FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542620 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah, fair enough there. 


    Honestly when you weed out the ridiculous arguments against Jaune, theres really not a LOT of things you can say. the biggest one ive seen most of is that there hasn't been any payoff for the amount of attention given to him.


  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold He who is found yet lost

    #33542621 - 1 week ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    As far as I am aware William didnt leave any children though I could be mistaken. His rebellion actually screwed my family we were landed nobility back then and his rebellion cost us our lands if I recall the family history right.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542622 - 1 week ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    My complaints would just be they haven't handled the when's and how's of his characters.


    Thinking on it, I'm not sure where the line between the writing behind a character, and the character themself is.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold He who is found yet lost

    #33542625 - 1 week ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    And that can be shot down by the simple argument Jaune is a MC on par with Ruby and its a long game.


    Its been said Monty made JNPR MCs at the last minute but as Wright points out they havent been fully honest with us. Its entirely possible that is a lie and its a lie to keep attention away from them or cause the FNDM to dismiss them.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold He who is found yet lost

    #33542629 - 1 week ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    That is a bit complex but it boils down to the writing is what the character is doing why they are doing and so on that may not be revealed to the audience yet while the character is the point the audience sees.


    So for example Raven clearly has a LOT in her cupboard but we havent seen anything with her so the writing is massive while the character is still small.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542634 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah I think that's another part of it. A big part thinking on it. JNPR are half treated as main characters, half everything else. It's inconsistent. As a time saving-measure JNPR's arc has largely been Jaunes arc, which is smart, but it lacks variety. I think this contributes to the idea Jaunes getting more attention than he should. I think what's really going on is JNPRs not getting enough time as it should, and a lot of what they do get is being focused on Jaune.

  • HunterBlaine

    HunterBlaine FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542635 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah I agree with you, but there in lies one of the issues with that side of the FNDM. A lot more people have been turning on Ruby as well, bringing up Mary sue arguments, saying shes a static character and never grows etc.

    So Jaune being on par with her is viewed as a big negative to them.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542638 - 1 week ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    I think those people are just missing that the point of Rubys character is that she's not complex, that she's a simple optimistic person.

    In reply to revanninja

    I don't think that's what I'm thinking of. Like for instance, know how I think Blakes a well written idiot? That's a case of the writing being very good, but the character being a dumbass. The line is clear there. But say for instance in some work authors switctched and a well-liked character becomes despised for the new writing forcing them through all kinds of bad decisions. In that scenario I imagine I wouldn't as clearly be able to differentiate the two. Upon reflection I'm thinking it's one of those really blurry things that's often hard to seperate.

  • Ashandarei22

    Ashandarei22

    #33542649 - 1 week ago

    I really don't have much an issue with Ruby, either. She's remained pretty constant and for the most part reacts as they've set her up and the one big "wtf" moment was when we learned about her eyes which was foreshadowed back in the first volume so at least it wasn't out of left field. Ruby has stayed true to her dreams and motivations, though, and she's know what she's wanted since the start.


    It's not all good writing, but it works more than it doesn't and while it's made the first 3 volumes feel more like the "get to know X and Y" scenario at times it looks like it'll probably start moving forward with things. Assuming they make it a bit tighter than volume 4 which dragged a bit due to everyone being scattered.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33542691 - 1 week ago

    In reply to Ashandarei22

    We knew enough that they were going to be important SOMEHOW, Ozpin's status is enough to give us that red flag.  The issue has always been with not getting any further context, so it's still more a Deus ex Machina than proper foreshadowing.  Super Saiyans and Goku becoming one was decent foreshadowing, as we had some contextual idea about what we might be dealing with, Vegeta and Freeza being used to that end.

    And as far as who's actually been used as MCs in their own right, that list boils down to Ruby, Jaune and Blake.  Only in season 4 did ANYONE else get anything all their own, and in all cases but Ren's, it was the same exact story with slight variations (and again, Yang = Korra).  At least Ren's turned out to NOT be a season-long Death in the Limelight like Pyrrha's was.  That being said, if they're now a confirmed romantic relationship, then the death flags are STILL on them.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33542700 - 1 week ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    And this is EXACTLY why being able to separate the character perspective from the audience perspective is needed, on the parts of both the author AND the audience.  We need the author to provide enough context that we understand the perspective of the characters, and WE have to be willing to take our own added perspective out of the equation.  It's why I argue the way I do about Goku going Super Saiyan being good writing, and it's why I take the opposite stance with Pokemon's Lumiose Conference arc.  With RWBY, I might have bought the whole "Pyrrha's messed up mentally to the point of suicide on the battlefield" IF they had given us any context to support that.  I might have bought the "gradual build-up of trauma" for Ruby's Silver Eyes IF they had bothered to show us it slowly manifesting in some fashion throughout the Invasion.

    But they did none of that, so I do not value those arguments in any way than correctly calling them rationalizations without any real evidence.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33543225 - 1 week ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Again I think the point of the silver eyes was to come out of nowhere, but that's a good point on Pyrrha. Part of why we hate it is that it makes absolutely zero sense to do what she did, unless it's battlefield suicide, which if it were the case, was completely and entirely miscommunicated.

  • FettucCR

    FettucCR

    #33543254 - 1 week ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah, fair enough there. 

    Honestly when you weed out the ridiculous arguments against Jaune, theres really not a LOT of things you can say. the biggest one ive seen most of is that there hasn't been any payoff for the amount of attention given to him.

    Oh, there's a LOT you can say, and people do say it. It's "lalala, I'm not listening!"

    In reply to SAmaster

    In reply to Blue-Rose-89

    Thanks, Blue-Rose!


    They do make sense. But that doesn't deny the fact he does sometimes seem to have no heart, which is what Qrow said.


    In reply to revanninja

    Some people simply don't get jokes, and on the other hand, are on the look for any excuse, however shallow, to throw a tantrum. This kind of people is the one you simply cannot reason with.


    In reply to Ashandarei22

    In reply to revanninja

    In reply to Blue-Rose-89

    These folks keep forgetting the characters ARE TEENAGERS, goddammit! They expect them to act like seasoned badasses, which they are not. Jaune's reaction is completely natural.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33543262 - 1 week ago

    In reply to FettucCR

    I think Ironwoods image problem is from him not quibbling over his decisions. Like most people would show more conflict in those moments. But I think Ironwood is like me- he's come to the conclusion which he thinks is the best one he can make, and doesn't see the point in feeling conflicted over it, since it's a decision he needs to make regardless of whether he feels conflicted over it or not.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold He who is found yet lost

    #33543279 - 1 week ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Except he keeps making bad choices and VERY obviously BAD choices.That everyone around him keeps telling him NO dont do that its stupid and he KEEPS doing them.


    His choices are hamfisted at BEST and moronic at worst. Large firepower does nothing and plays into Salem's hands Oz and the rest are right to call him on it.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33543290 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    And I have a differing perspective, for instance I think while superior fire power ended up being for not, at the time it was a more proactive solution than what Ozpin was suggesting. Now I'm going to leave it there, as we've been over this before.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold He who is found yet lost

    #33543294 - 1 week ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    SA no just no that is you twisting the situation and if you would stop bringing it up we wouldnt keep going over it. Ozpin WAS being proactive the thing is his proactive didnt involve a fleet hovering over the head of the country that won the last war which they started.


    I have spoken to you about doing this before you bringin up a subject and then trying to slam the door in people's faces as soon as they respond and negatively its REALLY bad form.

    If you dont want to discuss it then dont bring it up.

    If you bring it up then be prepared to discuss it.




  • SAmaster

    SAmaster FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33543312 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    I didn't bring it up. Ironwood came up, I commented on it, you commented on it. Stop trying to put everything on MY head. I'm not trying to shut you up, I am trying stop the both of us from falling into the same routine we always do.