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RWBY Volume 4 In-Depth Discussion and Spoilers: Finale Week

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  • HunterBlaine

    HunterBlaine FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542620 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah, fair enough there. 


    Honestly when you weed out the ridiculous arguments against Jaune, theres really not a LOT of things you can say. the biggest one ive seen most of is that there hasn't been any payoff for the amount of attention given to him.


  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33542621 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    As far as I am aware William didnt leave any children though I could be mistaken. His rebellion actually screwed my family we were landed nobility back then and his rebellion cost us our lands if I recall the family history right.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33542622 - 2 months ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    My complaints would just be they haven't handled the when's and how's of his characters.


    Thinking on it, I'm not sure where the line between the writing behind a character, and the character themself is.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33542625 - 2 months ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    And that can be shot down by the simple argument Jaune is a MC on par with Ruby and its a long game.


    Its been said Monty made JNPR MCs at the last minute but as Wright points out they havent been fully honest with us. Its entirely possible that is a lie and its a lie to keep attention away from them or cause the FNDM to dismiss them.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33542629 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    That is a bit complex but it boils down to the writing is what the character is doing why they are doing and so on that may not be revealed to the audience yet while the character is the point the audience sees.


    So for example Raven clearly has a LOT in her cupboard but we havent seen anything with her so the writing is massive while the character is still small.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33542634 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah I think that's another part of it. A big part thinking on it. JNPR are half treated as main characters, half everything else. It's inconsistent. As a time saving-measure JNPR's arc has largely been Jaunes arc, which is smart, but it lacks variety. I think this contributes to the idea Jaunes getting more attention than he should. I think what's really going on is JNPRs not getting enough time as it should, and a lot of what they do get is being focused on Jaune.

  • HunterBlaine

    HunterBlaine FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33542635 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah I agree with you, but there in lies one of the issues with that side of the FNDM. A lot more people have been turning on Ruby as well, bringing up Mary sue arguments, saying shes a static character and never grows etc.

    So Jaune being on par with her is viewed as a big negative to them.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33542638 - 2 months ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    I think those people are just missing that the point of Rubys character is that she's not complex, that she's a simple optimistic person.

    In reply to revanninja

    I don't think that's what I'm thinking of. Like for instance, know how I think Blakes a well written idiot? That's a case of the writing being very good, but the character being a dumbass. The line is clear there. But say for instance in some work authors switctched and a well-liked character becomes despised for the new writing forcing them through all kinds of bad decisions. In that scenario I imagine I wouldn't as clearly be able to differentiate the two. Upon reflection I'm thinking it's one of those really blurry things that's often hard to seperate.

  • Ashandarei22

    Ashandarei22

    #33542649 - 2 months ago

    I really don't have much an issue with Ruby, either. She's remained pretty constant and for the most part reacts as they've set her up and the one big "wtf" moment was when we learned about her eyes which was foreshadowed back in the first volume so at least it wasn't out of left field. Ruby has stayed true to her dreams and motivations, though, and she's know what she's wanted since the start.


    It's not all good writing, but it works more than it doesn't and while it's made the first 3 volumes feel more like the "get to know X and Y" scenario at times it looks like it'll probably start moving forward with things. Assuming they make it a bit tighter than volume 4 which dragged a bit due to everyone being scattered.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33542691 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Ashandarei22

    We knew enough that they were going to be important SOMEHOW, Ozpin's status is enough to give us that red flag.  The issue has always been with not getting any further context, so it's still more a Deus ex Machina than proper foreshadowing.  Super Saiyans and Goku becoming one was decent foreshadowing, as we had some contextual idea about what we might be dealing with, Vegeta and Freeza being used to that end.

    And as far as who's actually been used as MCs in their own right, that list boils down to Ruby, Jaune and Blake.  Only in season 4 did ANYONE else get anything all their own, and in all cases but Ren's, it was the same exact story with slight variations (and again, Yang = Korra).  At least Ren's turned out to NOT be a season-long Death in the Limelight like Pyrrha's was.  That being said, if they're now a confirmed romantic relationship, then the death flags are STILL on them.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33542700 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    And this is EXACTLY why being able to separate the character perspective from the audience perspective is needed, on the parts of both the author AND the audience.  We need the author to provide enough context that we understand the perspective of the characters, and WE have to be willing to take our own added perspective out of the equation.  It's why I argue the way I do about Goku going Super Saiyan being good writing, and it's why I take the opposite stance with Pokemon's Lumiose Conference arc.  With RWBY, I might have bought the whole "Pyrrha's messed up mentally to the point of suicide on the battlefield" IF they had given us any context to support that.  I might have bought the "gradual build-up of trauma" for Ruby's Silver Eyes IF they had bothered to show us it slowly manifesting in some fashion throughout the Invasion.

    But they did none of that, so I do not value those arguments in any way than correctly calling them rationalizations without any real evidence.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33543225 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Again I think the point of the silver eyes was to come out of nowhere, but that's a good point on Pyrrha. Part of why we hate it is that it makes absolutely zero sense to do what she did, unless it's battlefield suicide, which if it were the case, was completely and entirely miscommunicated.

  • FettucCR

    FettucCR

    #33543254 - 2 months ago

    In reply to HunterBlaine

    In reply to revanninja

    Yeah, fair enough there. 

    Honestly when you weed out the ridiculous arguments against Jaune, theres really not a LOT of things you can say. the biggest one ive seen most of is that there hasn't been any payoff for the amount of attention given to him.

    Oh, there's a LOT you can say, and people do say it. It's "lalala, I'm not listening!"

    In reply to SAmaster

    In reply to Blue-Rose-89

    Thanks, Blue-Rose!


    They do make sense. But that doesn't deny the fact he does sometimes seem to have no heart, which is what Qrow said.


    In reply to revanninja

    Some people simply don't get jokes, and on the other hand, are on the look for any excuse, however shallow, to throw a tantrum. This kind of people is the one you simply cannot reason with.


    In reply to Ashandarei22

    In reply to revanninja

    In reply to Blue-Rose-89

    These folks keep forgetting the characters ARE TEENAGERS, goddammit! They expect them to act like seasoned badasses, which they are not. Jaune's reaction is completely natural.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33543262 - 2 months ago

    In reply to FettucCR

    I think Ironwoods image problem is from him not quibbling over his decisions. Like most people would show more conflict in those moments. But I think Ironwood is like me- he's come to the conclusion which he thinks is the best one he can make, and doesn't see the point in feeling conflicted over it, since it's a decision he needs to make regardless of whether he feels conflicted over it or not.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33543279 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Except he keeps making bad choices and VERY obviously BAD choices.That everyone around him keeps telling him NO dont do that its stupid and he KEEPS doing them.


    His choices are hamfisted at BEST and moronic at worst. Large firepower does nothing and plays into Salem's hands Oz and the rest are right to call him on it.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33543290 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    And I have a differing perspective, for instance I think while superior fire power ended up being for not, at the time it was a more proactive solution than what Ozpin was suggesting. Now I'm going to leave it there, as we've been over this before.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33543294 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    SA no just no that is you twisting the situation and if you would stop bringing it up we wouldnt keep going over it. Ozpin WAS being proactive the thing is his proactive didnt involve a fleet hovering over the head of the country that won the last war which they started.


    I have spoken to you about doing this before you bringin up a subject and then trying to slam the door in people's faces as soon as they respond and negatively its REALLY bad form.

    If you dont want to discuss it then dont bring it up.

    If you bring it up then be prepared to discuss it.




  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33543312 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    I didn't bring it up. Ironwood came up, I commented on it, you commented on it. Stop trying to put everything on MY head. I'm not trying to shut you up, I am trying stop the both of us from falling into the same routine we always do.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33543315 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Yeah except it wasnt being discussing that at all it was being discussed if he had heart. Not was his choices the best one which is what I commented on.

    Notice the context you shifted it to wasnt what you think it was?


    And yes trying to shut me up when I respond to you IS on your head.

    That was you trying to get the last word on the subject and trying to slam the door in my face its not okay.


    You know what works wonders?

    Saying I agree to disagree.

    Not what you just tried to do and are STILL trying to do.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33543326 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Except when I did say 'agree to disagree' in another thread, you threw the exact same fit, accusing me of trying to shut you up in the exact same manner. I am steadily becoming convinced that you are going to find an issue with me no matter what I do, because this? This is me trying NOT to get into a fight and it apparently isn't working.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33543328 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    First I didnt throw a fit.


    And no you didnt use that you did what you just did here where you brought up a subject then as soon as I responded you tried to shut me down.

    Nice forgetting of the context there SA really mature.


    No I am not going to find an issue with you no matter what you do you just KEEP doing things that I have on MANY MANY MANY let me make this clear MANY occassions have told you its not okay.


    You despite that and despite OTHERS agreeing with me and telling you no that is wrong you still continue.


    The one trying to start crap is not me. And I am not looking for a fight but for someone who has told me flat out they need help you dont TRY I have spoken to you on MANY occassions that the reason so many are mad at you and stop posting to you is because you dont try at all.

    I have not seen a LICk of change.


  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33543335 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    There you go again. You KEEP taking the worst possible interpretations. You know how you've asked me to stop assuming things of you? I'm asking you to stop assuming you know what I'm trying to do, because you don't. I've explained myself countless times that I'm coming from a good place, and you keep ignoring me, and the next time there is a miscommunication you naturally assume I'm doing everytjing on purpose. Stop it. It'll make things easier for the both of us. 


    Believe me, I am trying. May not be apparent because I am truly that incompetent. But I've tried over and over, and what changes I'm making seem to either be unnoticed, produce the same results, or male things worse. Of course at this point I'm beggining to think there's nothing I can do to truly convince you.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33543339 - 2 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    The issue is history shows otherwise.

    i am not assuming ANYTHING this is what you have showed me over several months now SA.

    THAT is the problem

    YOU arent showing me anything to counter that.


    Its very simple I have repeated this MANY times and you have ignored me.

    Look up your words

    Many times you use the wrong meaning or something that needs context for it to be that which it lacks.

    Research before you post.

    Many times you say X when no its Y and that comes straight from the show.

    Stop and listen.

    Many times you have an idea in your head of what we are saying and respond to THAT instead of what we do say.

    When someone tells you its the right thing to do X dont argue.

    We have told you about stuff like linking artist names and not posting one post then trying to close the discussion when one person responds 

    Stop assuming

    You many times assume things about people and places dont look it up.

    Dont nitpick

    This is a big one you sometimes argue over stuff and dismiss it as pointless or go into small details on stuff that doesnt have details for example asking if it was The Origin story vs THE origin story which unless someone is actually talking about they wouldnt underline that.


    I have told you these before and if you look 90% of our issues fall into that.

    This right now is the when someone tells you because trying to close the dscussion on someone is rude and is not okay even if you dont like what they say.

    There is a lot of ways to bow out gracefully and not do what you have tried to do.


    Same goes for what you just tried to do Assume I am not at all and no I dont keep seeing the worst that is just how you come across all the time.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33543386 - 2 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Ok....how exactly was Ozpin trying to be proactive?  All I saw him doing was putting his thumb up his ass waiting things out.  The only things that com to mind are Amber and Mountain Glenn.  However, the problem with the first is that it sounded like a last-ditch option that they'd rather not have to resort to, and the problem with the second is that Ozpin erred BADLY on sending a first-year team on what was a third-year and up mission until he bent the rules in an egregiously bad case of "The Main Characters Do Everything".

    Sorry, but if Ozzie's been proactive, we've seen none of it, or he's fucked up royal when we do.  I would have backed Ironwood full stop as well.  I came to the same conclusion that SAmaster did.  Am I twisting things, too?


    In reply to SAmaster

    If the plan was to have it come out of nowhere, then it's a bad plan from its inception.  Shit that big, you DON'T get the luxury of having it appear out of nowhere.  That's shit you NEED to build-up first.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33543388 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Yep you forgot Qrow who was hunting the people who did it to amber aka Cinder which that is right Ironwood cut him off.

    Also rwby was clearly lying and Oz knew it but he allowed them to go and sent a trusted teacher to go or do you think obleck who can wreck Atlas paladins went along by chance after he so clearly helped rwby?


    Ozpin did a lot of subtle things but he wasn't sitting there as you so crudely called it shoving his thumbs up his ass.


    From my phone