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Pyrrha Nikos general discussion

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  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33570384 - 7 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    In that scenario think of it like the mythical account of things. Like how George Miller says he likes to think of the Mad Max films as being the legends told by post-apocalyptic Australia rather than the actual events.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33570403 - 7 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Except that there's nothing to indicate that in the movie itself.  That's just his headcanon, kinda like how some people take a darker take on kid's shows like Ed, Edd and Eddy and say that they're all ghosts of kids from different era and that the cul-de-sac that they all live in is purgatory.  And as with RWBY, while she might be an Unreliable Narrator within the scope of the story being told, there's nothing to show that she's deliberately taking artistic license with the story, nor should she if it turns out that this is her telling her story after the fact.

    Perhaps if Miller wanted the Mad Max films to be the stuff of myth in that post-apocalyptic Australia, he should have been a little more clear on that in the movie itself.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570436 - 7 months ago

    I wonder how Miles must be feeling about all this.

    I just had a...delightfull conversation in the RWBY Create a character thread where I said Romeo and Juliet is a satire got told no in a super aggressive and mean way and then basically got noobed and the like when i am VERY clearly trying to not start a fight and avoid a long argument and being told no you started it and so on.

    I am FURIOUS over the treatment because most of it is bull and me trying to stay civil and people just esclating on me.


    And then it occured to me. This must be how Miles feels about Jaune and the RWDE BS. His stuff is being dragged through the mud with people acting like he is doing something he isnt and a bunch of other things and I cant help but feel the situation I just had occur was just like what Miles is going through.

    He cant respond because everyone is jumping down his throat and what he does respond with is being taken out of context or so heavily messed with its clearly not what he meant.


    So I am wondering how Miles feels about this. yes he is making mistakes but how much is what he honestly did and how much is what other people saying?

  • AAGGRESSS

    AAGGRESSS

    #33570439 - 7 months ago

    In reply to revanninja


    iu was never quite sure if R and J was a satire or a cautionary tail of two stupid kids who mistake attraction for love, ruin their familys lives and kill themselves over being dramatic gits. Either way people who take it as a true romance...well this is why Twilight exists.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570441 - 7 months ago

    In reply to AAGGRESSS

    I know you mean well but after the BS of early I dont want to discuss it. I am VERY clearly slandered in that and the funny part is people tell me the other guy oh that is just how he is he doesnt mean it like that but take me to task without the same befit of the doubt.

    I was just using it to compare to Miles and vent a little 

    Its Miles feelings I wanted to discuss because there has to be some BS going on with Miles and how people are treating RWBY.

  • HunterBlaine

    HunterBlaine FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33570444 - 7 months ago

    In reply to revanninja


    Miles and Kerry both have an insane amount of pressure on them. I certainly don't envy them.

  • AAGGRESSS

    AAGGRESSS

    #33570449 - 7 months ago

    In reply to revanninja Sorry dood. hope you feel better soon.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570451 - 7 months ago

    In reply to AAGGRESSS

    I am VERY tempted to unfollow and just let it disappear.

    I don't do that so that should tell you how not happy I am with the situation and feel the whole thing is not okay.

    Nearly every comment is noobed even basic comments.

    From my phone 

  • Bumblebee4life

    Bumblebee4life FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33570480 - 7 months ago

    In reply to AAGGRESSS

    Hey at least Meyer has a better understanding of romance than el James but that's like saying that EA is better than konami... both suck but one sucks less.  

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33570510 - 7 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    True there's no framing device, but i like the idea as it explains a lot of minor nighles.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33570519 - 7 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    It's not so much a satire, as it is not a romance: it's a tragedy. Which is why it doesn't work as a romance, it's not supposed to, it's meant to be a tragedy, as two families prejudices drive a young, dumb, and in love couple to suicide.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570529 - 7 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    It's a satire because it makes fun of the then political views and beliefs the problem is that context is lost on most people

    Now sa you are not HELPING 

    From my phone 

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33570531 - 7 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Ultimately, any author can say what they wanted their thing to be after the fact, but it still falls on them to depict that in some way in their work.  That's the problem I have with this, since it allows the author to essentially bullshit something to hand-wave some of their faulty writing gaffes.  Hell, six months after RWBY ends (being told as a straight story), Miles and Kerry could say that all of it was just a hallucination Ruby was having while in an asylum, and half this fanbase would smile, nod and blindly accept that.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33570555 - 7 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Ah.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33570556 - 7 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    I'm not saying they should do that with Ruby, not at all. Just exploring the idea if RWBY were say a mythic legend.

  • DiMono

    DiMono FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold It's Back Baby!

    #33570572 - 7 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    The only time you're really going to get away with that is in videogames, where you have a direct hand in the story being told as you play through the game, no matter what the framing device ends up being.

    Ahem...


    There's also a list on this page, and both lists include some that don't have voiceover narration, proving that that's not a prerequisite either. As well, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid has an unreliable narrator, as does Life of Pi. Whether a movie can get away with it depends entirely on how well it is written.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570587 - 7 months ago

    In reply to DiMono

    Except and it's been awhile don't those make it VERY obvious tat is going on? Because that is what I recall but I can't check.

    From my phone 

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33570595 - 7 months ago

    In reply to DiMono

    I was referring to your entire claim, not just the Unreliable Narrator part in and of itself.  Conveniently ignored that part, didn't you?  I specifically meant the combination of BOTH the Unreliable Narrator and the idea that the narrator is taking artistic license on top of that.  Way to pick and choose your quotes to twist what I meant.

    I also never said a damn thing about a voice-over narration being a prerequisite, I have no idea where you got that notion from.

    Checking over that list, it's clear that the one common thing about all those films is that while the narrator is unreliable, the events they are narrating for did happen to their own perception.  To them, it happened that way.  What we are talking about is the case where the narrator is unreliable, the events didn't happen the way they say they did, and they are in full knowledge of that.  In this case, the depicted events are true in no one's perspective.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570599 - 7 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Voice over is from me because I was pointing out the narrative isn't shown being from ruby at most narrative is Oz and salem that is more dialogue then narrative

    From my phone 

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33570614 - 7 months ago

    In reply to DiMono

    Most of them again having a framing device that RWBY is lacking.


    I think it's a cool idea to theorize on, but it looks like some of our grumpier forum-goers are just getting progressively more sour, I think it's best to shelve this discussion for now.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570623 - 7 months ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Sa yeah no not okay.

    That makes it seem like some is against an idea because of their attitude instead of valid reason. You may not agree with those reasons but don't make it seem like something it's not.

    From my phone 

  • DiMono

    DiMono FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold It's Back Baby!

    #33570642 - 7 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    So what's the difference between your theories, which I claim are backed by speculation, and my theory, which you and others claim is backed by speculation? Miles and co have not done anything to suggest that Pyrrha is coming back, but folks in this thread are pointing at random things and saying "this is a clue!" I'm taking specific things about the show, like a single episode having a chibi Ruby in it (a representation of how she feels, rather than what actually happened, and we never see it again), and the fact that basically untrained students have no difficulty at all in wiping the floor with supposedly dangerous Grimm on a regular basis without even taking a hit (yet a fight against a single man is somehow life-and-death), and saying "this feels like exaggeration, as if our narrator is giving us a biased point of view" (which is what an unreliable narrator actually is - not a narrator who straight up lies, but one who flavours the truth to make things appear more or less favourable than they really were, based on how they felt at the time).


    So what makes your speculation any more meritous than mine? They are both based on interpreting what we see in non-obvious ways. The only real difference is that the majority in this thread agree with yours, and disagree with mine. You don't get to throw out my methods without throwing out your own, because they're identical.


    The fact of the matter is that Ruby as an unreliable narrator clears up the biggest problem people have had with the end of Volume 3 - the sudden tone shift. In the first episode, Ruby straight up tells us that she thinks being a Huntress is romantic. And what do we see for the first 2 1/2 Volumes of the show? Everything about learning to be a Huntress being romanticized. Then there's the fall of Beacon, and suddenly the Grimm threat becomes all too real. When people around you start dying, the rose-tinted glasses have to come off so that reality can rear its ugly head. What we're getting now is probably shifted in the other direction: it appears more grim than it really is. And over time, I think things will level out.


    I know I'm not going to convince anyone in this thread that this idea is correct, and I'm not trying to. As I said before, I'm presenting it here because I think it's an interesting one. But if the series ends with an adult Ruby Rose closing a book and tucking in her daughter, I will come back here to say I told you so. Because I'm a jerk like that :P

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33570659 - 7 months ago

    In reply to DiMono

    They are not identical though.

    You think they are because you are dismissive of our evidence and what we see which is a filter you have. But let me make this clear I am not dismissive of your idea out of hand like you come across to us. Rather I have looked at your stuff and cant agree with the idea you have come to.

    First the chibi Ruby is an anime thing which there is a lot of it in RWBY but if you noticed Ruby was hand drawn which the hand drawing has left RWBY outside of specific moments where the whole style switches to it such as when Yang is narrating Qrow saving her.

    The chibi was an early thing that got dropped as they switched and found their own legs..also possibly legal but that isnt here or now. We dont see Chibi RWBY happen again not because it was a symbol but rather the direction of the show itself changed.

    The other things you claim as evidence also fall into this.

    Then there is the issue some of it can be editing mistakes or just the people doing it not thinking about it. For example Ruby in vol 4 ending is writing right hand...except in all other volumes she is left.

    So some of it is art styles that get changed much like how they moved from Poser to maya a confirmed undeniable thing they did do which has effects on their animations. Others are plain mistakes they didnt realize they did.


    The tone shift isnt handled by it being a narration though. But rather POV. All our main characters are students who are unaware of the dangers of the world who suddenly have that danger shoved into their lives. That rather there answers the tone shift because it was a real tone shift much like someone who had a happy home life suddenly has both their mom and dad die they too will experience a tone shift without it being a narrative symbol.

    Because their life DID experience a tone shift.

    And that is the reason why I look at your theory askance you push it forward like its the ONLY answer when the way the show has been going already presents an answer without it requiring a narrator reliable or otherwise.

    The characters we follow shape our views and understandings of the world much like how the words we know do so. For example there is dozens of words for snow in inuit langauge because to them its important to have them.

    For us the Members of RWBY and JNPR are our words and they personally dont know better before it all comes crashing down.


    The reason why ours are different and not the same is because ours can have some things be wrong and not destroy it.

    If one or 2 of the things we see and note turn out to be false or over blown it doesnt kill the theory. For example if it turns out we are wrong and Cinder DID burn Pyrrha to ash considering Ozpin that isnt a theory killer it changes things yes but due to a character that is confirmed it does not kill the idea.

    With yours though as soon as ONE of your ideas of Symbols gets shown to be an art sytle and not them doing a subtle Ruby narrative then it calls the other symbols into question.

    That is the major difference. Yours requires ALL examples of the symbols to be Ruby recalling this and exaggerating it ours only a few have to be true for Pyrrha to come back.


    And what will you do when Pyrrha comes Back? because I am not that type of Jerk 


    EDIT

    and just to be clear by mistakes I mean the whole yang in the air thing in terms of symbols.

    If someone was doing a rule of cool fight they may not realize how long someone being in the air means in terms of velocity and so on. I know for a fact I didnt until I saw the discussion on it.


    Also same goes for the Grimm Miles and kerry have FLAT out stated they made a mistake with the grimm they wanted them to be deadly and in fact its one of the reasons they give for Roman was to reestablish that Grimm arent just mooks to tear through like tissue paper.

    The creators themselves in the afterbuzz for the Vol 3 finale I think it was said they made a mistake in how they preset the grimm which is oone of the problems with your theory that runs directly counter to it.

    And we see in vol 4 Grimm have been made a LOT more deadly.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33570666 - 7 months ago

    In reply to DiMono

    That you're a jerk like that was well-known to us all, bit if we're now going to cast shade on each other, the biggest difference between you and us is that we've admitted that what we've come up with is a good deal of speculation.  You have done no such thing.  In fact, what you have come up with here neatly quells not just all the discrepancies, but all the criticism regarding them.  It's as I said: a catch-all to explain and hand-wave EVERYTHING to the point where there can be no criticism.....and I think you're aware of that, and it falls in line with your past appearances here.  You've tried to browbeat us into falling in line with the whole "vocal minority" thing, you tried to shut us up with your little conversation with Barbara during your convention last summer, and this falls right in line with your MO.  I waited a month to ask you why you were even here again, but I'd actually been wondering that from day one, just held my tongue.  But now I don't need you to answer that, I already know: same shit as always with you.  THIS is why I respond to you with the venom that I do, you've more than earned it.  That you're an Admin for RT doesn't help you at this point.  You're a shill, nothing more.  And you're not credible.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33570721 - 7 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Or it can be both. I'm saying the discussion isn't really going anywhere either way, so it should be tabled.