Forums > RWBY

Questions surrounding Pyrrha's death. Did Pyrrha die in vain?

Posts (67)

  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33139863 - 2 years ago

    After having my heart broken over the death of Pyrrha, one question has been tormenting my mind, even so much that is has been affecting my daily life.


    Why did Pyrrha try to fight Cinder...


    Why did she go to the top of the tower and fight, she was ordered to get Qrow and the others.

    Cinder was not going after Jaune and Pyrrha, so it was not to defend Jaune. Did Pyrrha truly think she could beat Cinder? Was she really that stupid? It just doesn't feel right, after all they did with her story.... I know it was Monty's intention to let her die from the beginning, But why make such a story arround Pyrrha, just to let her die without meaning... What was Cinder doing ontop of the tower anyway....


    Until i know what Cinder was trying to do ontop of the tower i'm not sure if i can have peace with Pyrrha's death...

    What was that whole "do you believe in destiny " stuff anyway, it all seems so out of place. Either there is more to this story, or they just rushed the ending they were supose to make...


    Could anyone shine some light on the subject pls... i've haven't gotten a propper night's sleep since i saw the episode....


  • ziovi

    ziovi

    #33139873 - 2 years ago

    Here is how i see it:

    Ozpin sent her and Jaune to find Qrow and the others to help, and he also clearly stated that the they had to protect the tower. It sounded like it was a very important thing to do.

    So the plan was for him to stall Cinder while they were trying to get get some help. However, when they were still not far from the tower, they understood that Ozpin was out of the game and could not stop Cinder any more.

    Pyrrha understood there were no time for them to find help and decided to go and take Ozpin's place. She knew that she her chances or getting back alive well almost zero, but just like Ozpin's put his life on the line to protect the tower, she decided to sacrifice herself in exchange of a small chance to gain enough time for someone to come help and stop Cinder's plan.

    She prioritized gaining even a small chance to stop their enemy, which could potentially save many, over her own life. Altough that was suicidal, she was just being her own virtous, outstanding self.

  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33139901 - 2 years ago

    Something like that crossed my mind aswell. There is a World of Remnant episode that was talking about the way to communicate with the other kingdoms, that each kingdom had a tower that was used for communication, and that all the towers had to be up in order for it to work. You know, the "if the people of Remnant are to speak, then they shall do so together. Or not at all. But in the end they said that communication was down arround the kingdom and not worldwide, so i'm not sure if the school tower was the communication tower aswell. But if the school tower and the communication tower are the same, then Pyrrha did indeed fail, and the rest of Remnant has no way to communicate with each other.

  • Rakanadyo

    Rakanadyo

    #33139904 - 2 years ago

    Any theories about the finality of her death aside, Pyrrha was based on two things. The Greek hero Achilles, and the term "pyrrhic victory"


    Achilles was a great warrior, destined to do amazing things. However, he was also destined to die rather in vain. And he did, although his death inspired others.

    A pyrrhic victory is a situation in which your side ultimately "wins", but only at a cost that is deemed so excessive and unneeded that it's just as much a loss. Pyrrha's death, although in vain and not really meaning anything on a large scale, indirectly caused Cinder and the Grimm dragon to be stopped (for now). So it was a pyrrhic victory: good stopped evil, but at too great a cost.


    I personally don't like the way they went about it, but a scenario like this, including her death, was what her character was built on.

  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33139912 - 2 years ago

    then again, i really hope they didn't just designed Pyrrha with the sole reason so she could die....

  • ziovi

    ziovi

    #33139967 - 2 years ago

    RT guys be like "here, we created this character: she is strong, beautiful, kind, smart, a true paragon of virtue, with only one flaw that will make her just more likeable (i'm talking about her lack of friends). Good. Now let's kill her off very early in the story!!"

    Thank you very little, guys!

    I hate you!!!!

    but i also love you...

  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33139976 - 2 years ago

    Its funny, I've seen milions of anime, i like horror, seen main characters die left and right, played games, seen movies, seen family pass away.... but never had a reaction as strong is with Pyrrha....

    dont know if it has anything to do with that fact that she is a woman, or because i've been feeling pretty lonely lately... but damm.

  • Rakanadyo

    Rakanadyo

    #33139991 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo

    Same here, bro. I've seen characters I liked die many times, but Pyrrha's is the first to have a significant impact on me. She was always my 2nd favorite behind Yang, but I didn't expect her death to make me feel so bummed out.

  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33140005 - 2 years ago

    How hard it is to say, i really hope they just dont bring Pyrrha back from the dead, ofcourse, it would make sense... seeing how sudden and wierdly placed her death is. The problem is, it takes away the meaning of her death, and with that, take away all the credibility of the show.... what is the purpose of fighting great evil without there being any consequences. In my opinion that is where ALLOT of shows/animes/games fail at. And that is, in my eyes, what defines a good show. Being able to kill one of your main characters, without killing the show, how painfull it may be....

  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33140019 - 2 years ago

    Mhh, who would have thought that talking about my problems would actually help... think i finaly found peace with Pyrrha's end.


    To everyone awnsering on this thread, Thank You

  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141472 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo


    Srry for length.

    I have made a video analyzing her story arc on youtube.

    Briefly my analysis is this: the way RT portrayed the event was not very good and did make it seem pointless.


    However here is a more optimistic intepretation:


    True Ozpin did mention protecting the tower, and the importance of the CCTS was probably well known. Problem with this alone is that not only would Pyrrha be up against Cinder-Autumn, (granted with some of her aura depleted) but also up against the dragon. Recall it was the Dragon that destroyed the CCTS tower, not Cinder.


    As unlikely as it was that Pyrrha thought she could beat Cinder, no way she could think that she could also take out the Dragon, especially given Pyrrha's aura must have been partially depleted also given her fight with Penny happened less than an hour ago.


    In other words, no way Pyrrha thought she could win.

    Perhaps she thought she could defend the tower until help arrived? Plausible.

    However, if you pay attention to her movement, her fighting style, the music and just the general tone of the scene, it was clear that she was not playing defensively. The smart thing to do would have been to act as a distraction, dodge & weave, and keep Cinder from doing any damage until help arrived. If you say this is a nitpick, let me point out that many times RT has emphasized subtle nuances in a character's fight style to show us what was happening in her mind (ie Carolina).


    This leaves only one choice: life was no longer her concern.

    When she went up that tower she had no interest any longer in staying alive. It explains everything about her actions, how she fought, how aggressive she was, and how she embraced death at the end.


    She did not expect to win. She sought a warrior's death.


    Now the question is of course: why? Why throw your life away when you had so much left to give?


    It wasn't exactly rational, but it could make sense. If you pay attention to the deeper piety and virtuosity of the character. "For it is in passing that we achieve immortality. Through this we become a paragon of virtue and glory to rise above all."


    By destroying Penny and playing right into Cinder's hands, she inadvertently caused all of the mayhem that was happening now. She had failed everyone and everything that she loved: Jaune, her team, the school, Ozpin, the people of Vale etc. All of the deaths caused by this Grimm attack were HER fault. (of course we forgive her in reality, but she wouldnt forgive herself).


    This, combined with her sense of piety, that leaves only one option for her. Redemption through death. Die for your past mistakes, and become the paragon of virtue you wanted to be.


    Her destiny was to die a warrior's death. To die like a huntress. After all recall what Torchwick said: "die like all the other hunters and huntresses throughout history".


    This is what her destiny was. When she went up that tower she knew she had to die in order to fulfill it, in order to redeem herself and become immortal. When the flash of light happens when she dies, that is her soul going off to Valhalla (metaphorically).


    So when she asks if Cinder believes in destiny, it was her self-actualizing and letting us know that this destiny is what she, Pyrrha, needed. Redemption through death. Passing and then joining the dead warriors of old.


    It's poetic this way, unfortunately all of this subtext was either VERY subtle, or simply not there, or not build up sufficiently. As I see it this is the only interpretation that makes any sense, and makes her death resonant.



  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33141484 - 2 years ago

    Thank you for writing all this, and I came to such a conclusion myself aswell. but, when i was checking some other posts, one caught my attention, #33140802, there is a picture with the RWBY character status chart. As you can see the first thing that was listed at Pyrrha was, Died a virgin. When you think about it, she was still 17, when she met Jaune she said he was the first one who she considerd a friend, because everyone was to affright to talk to her, you can see it in that valentines card of Pyrrha's. she has Always trained to be the best. Never had a change to experience life. So, the hard part about accepting her death is the fact that she really never lived in the first place. I think that is the part i struggle most with

  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141489 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo

    That post is mostly a joke. The problem for me with Pyrrha's death was


    a) it was not built up properly, as it should have as I explain in my previous post.

    b) there was almost no reaction to her death from anyone. Her death felt inconclusive. Like we didn't really comprehend what had happened and why. As people have pointed out: it felt off.


    Hence why so many theories about her living have popped up. The reason for this is because of how "off" her death felt. Had it been done the way I explained perhaps with some more finality to it, people would quicker accept her death.

  • angelfire400

    angelfire400 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33141490 - 2 years ago

    Don't forget that it may have been Pyrrha's destiny to die so that Ruby would discover her potential power, and ultimately stop Cinder and Salem for good. A catalyst of sorts, that might prove to be the salvation of Remnant. I just think that if she were really and truly dead there would have been even more emphasis on it. A dead body as proof would have been way easier than all the show with the flash of light and floating into the wind, and settled the matter permanently.

    Many people also quote the Voice Actress mentioning that this was Monty's intention from the start for Pyrrha's "fate", which is an interesting choice of words, not end, death, purpose, or destiny, but "Fate".

    When Pyrrha is talking to Jaune earlier in the season, she is describing destiny to him. And she says "When I think of destiny, I don't think of a predetermined "fate" you can't escape. But rather... some sort of final goal, something you work towards your entire life." Sometimes it is hard for me to remember that the writers know how the story is actually going to end, and they helped create the characters. If it was a predetermined "fate" for Pyrrha to die like this, they why would they write in this scene and use these words?

  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141491 - 2 years ago

    In reply to Angelfire400

    I don't consider her sacrifice a pyrrhic victory because it unlocked Ruby's power. For one Ruby's power could have been unlocked in some other way for all we know - for example if she saw Yang have her arm chopped off.


    Secondly no way Pyrrha knew wat was going to happen. It's more justified if Pyrrha decided to go to her death for her own reasons.


  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33141513 - 2 years ago

    Wow... has been 4 days now..... At the beginning of the thread i wrote that this was starting to affect my daily life... Here I am, took a bite from my dinner and left it for the dogs, for the 3th time, every single problem i had with Pyrrha's end i solved... but every time i get one awnser, and new question popped up... I know the Character status post was ment as a joke, its still true... And yes, i know, I'm overthinking this way to much at this point. even though there are conflicting theories whether or not Pyrrha is really dead, I really hope she stays dead, even though it seems rushed and misplaced. I think Pyrrha's end is for the better for the show, but my heart says its just not right.... Funny thing is, IF Pyrrha is truly dead, why didn't anyone from Rooster Teeth confirm so? I'm pretty sure they read the forums, with all the activity its hard to miss. Yet the only thing we have are the twitterposts of Jen Brown that uses these strange choice of words.... And this only makes it harder for me....

  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141538 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo

    Because RT likes to troll their audience I guess. As I point out in my vid, artists tend to do that.


    Jen's strange choice of words could be to troll you, or it perhaps she assumed u took the hint and the truth couldn't be anymore obvious. Either way we all look like idiots for speculating.


  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33141544 - 2 years ago

    btw, could you link that video?

    ty

  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141557 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo

    It's an hour long and bit ranty.


    First half I explain what I think they did wrong, second half I suggest my optimistic interpretation.


    https://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U

  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33141567 - 2 years ago

    In reply to Aerdoth

    you posted the wrong link, this will only send me to the account section with that accounts video, so, that will be my video's ..... :P


  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141570 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo

    Woops my bad,

    Wait how do i post links.


    Perhaps go to youtube search "The Problem with Pyrrha Nikos' Death" and you should find it.

  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141572 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo

    Or mebe this will work: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOEDv5r1zT0


  • pietjepolo

    pietjepolo

    #33141573 - 2 years ago

    yea, that will do, thank you


  • Aerdoth

    Aerdoth

    #33141576 - 2 years ago

    In reply to pietjepolo

    I apologize in advance for the audio quality. Havent bought a good microphone yet.

  • xBig_D_68x

    xBig_D_68x

    #33141577 - 2 years ago

    The big problem I have with Pyrrha's death is that when she died, she dissolved. Unlike normal people in the show when they die that seem to die like they do in our world. Is this because of Cider's arrow (perhaps it has a unique trait when it kills someone, if so then why didn't the fall maiden dissolve?) or is it perhaps that Pyrrha's essence is somehow linked to Jaun's from season 1. I alway thought that the monologue from Pyrrha seemed odd when she unlocked Jaun's aura