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Ozpin - The Not So Great and Powerful

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  • Sybaen

    Sybaen FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33156791 - 2 years ago

    Buckle up, cuz this might take a while.

    We're going to be using recent events and a few of the songs to string together a theory. A theory so disturbing, forecasting such a huge predicament that Ruby might go through, that even I hope it isn't true.

    The first thing we need to establish is the belief that Ozpin is the wizard from the story. We know Salem and Ozpin have been having a dialogue from the first Episode into the last. She speaks to him about humanity as if he isn't human himself, and even he refers to all the mistakes he's made, like he's much older than he appears.

    The second is that Salem is as old as he is, if not older. Maybe she's the first Grimm, maybe she used to be a normal human that discovered a way to combine herself with the Grimm for their life spans (the Goliaths are supposedly hundreds of years old), the point being, at some point, Salem became the "big bad". But then, she wasn't heard from again for a very long time. What has she been doing up until now? We can assume that her plans didn't start until some point around when Summer Rose died. At first I thought that Summer was a maiden, and that her death was caused by Cinder's first attempt to steal maiden's powers, but now I think that silver eyes is something completely different, something that's history is as awful as maidens being hunted for their powers in the past.

    The third is that, like Weiss's family Glyphs, Ruby's lineage has the silver eyes trait. Her mother, her grandmother, her great grandmother, back further and further in time to when the legends began. And yet, no one remembers the legends anymore, to the extent that not even Ruby knows about her own power.

    And the fourth is that this power is somehow tied into the moon. Ruby is often depicted with the full moon in the background (in front of the full moon in the S1 Opening, and falling out of the full moon in S2), her weapon is called Crescent Rose, and the moon is mentioned several times during different songs.

    The next thing we need to do is look at some facts.

    Qrow tells Ruby that the power could kill Grimm with a single look, and yet the dragon is merely frozen. This is part of the reason I had this whole idea in the first place.

    Freezing the Grimm hurt Ruby. She passed out, and when she woke up, she still "hurt all over".

    Summer Rose is supposedly dead after being sent on a mission by Ozpin.

    The Theory

    When Salem first reared her ugly head, a long long time ago, the world was at a loss. Not even Ozpin could beat her. Try as they might, she was just too powerful. Until a warrior stepped forward to take her on. A silver eyed warrior. Using every ounce of her power, she used up her aura, her life, in one attack on Salem. The warrior died. However, Salem did not. Like the dragon, she was merely frozen. Knowing that none of their attacks had any effect, and fearing that he might release Salem, Ozpin left.

    He secluded himself away in a cabin, dreading the day that Salem might be free. Knowing that he would live to see the day that every human on the planet died. A few years went by, until finally, a woman appeared, sitting under his tree. The sisters, soon to be the very first Maidens come to him, and coerced Ozpin out of his despair. It was then that he had an idea, and gave them their powers, hoping that they could spread happiness before the end.

    The wizard then left his little forest. Walking among the people who he had shunned for years. And then he found her... The daughter of the one that sacrificed herself to stop Salem. A daughter with silver eyes, with the same power. It was then that the first seed of an idea popped into his head, but being a good man, he couldn't ask her to do the same as her mother...

    Until Salem was set free, and the armies of Grimm began to descend upon the world again. Another war, countless dead. Using the maidens was too risky. If one of them died, her powers might transfer to Salem, and then there would be no stopping her. So he asked the impossible. He asked the daughter to make the same sacrifice her mother had made. She agreed, wanting only to know that her daughter would be taken care of.

    And so the cycle began. As in the first half of the song "Sacrifice".

    "All your faith in ancient ways"

    "Leaves you trapped inside a maze"

    "Take the lives of those you need"

    "Sow the death, then reap the seed"

    "Reap the seed"


    "The Moon will sadly watch the roses die" (More than one. Ruby's family name is Rose)


    "In Vain"

    "Lost, No Gain"


    "What if all the plans you made"

    "Were not worth the price they paid"


    "Even with the lives you stole"

    "Still no closer to your goal"


    After the silver eyed warrior would have a child with silver eyes, Ozpin would then ask that person to go on a mission to defeat Salem, and they would either knowingly, or unwittingly sacrifice themselves. He would then take her child under his wing, training her for the day that she would also need to die for the greater good. This may have been the reason Ozpin let Ruby in two years early.

    But all this was like slapping on a band-aid when you've had an arm chopped off. As the song points out, these sacrifices aren't going to stop Salem in the long run, they're only adding time on the clock. Ozpin still hasn't been able to come up with a final solution. (I was toying with the idea that the entire reason they attempted space travel with dust propulsion in the first place was to take the frozen Salem and launch her into outer space. That would certainly fix their problems.)

    I'll get to the second half of Sacrifice in a minute, for now, let's look at Red Like Roses Part II.

    The first thing I want to point out is that we may have been mistaken. This isn't a song between Ruby and Summer. This is a song between every silver eyed warrior and her daughter.

    “Make you understand the reasons why I did it”


    “This bedtime story ends with misery ever after”

    “The pages are torn and there’s no final chapter”


    “I didn’t have a choice I did what I had to do”

    “I made a sacrifice but forced a bigger sacrifice on you”


    “But baby please don’t do what I did”

    “I don’t want you to waste your life in vain”


    Now the lyrics fall even more in to place. Reiterating that there is a sacrifice being made, that it is being made "in vain", with "no final chapter", because it isn't a final solution. And that every warrior realizes this as she dies and doesn't want her daughter to do the same thing she did.

    Now, the second half of "Sacrifice".

    "But you're not taking me."

    "You can't have my life,"

    "I'm not your sacrifice."

    "You can try, but I'm free,"

    "And you won’t conquer me."

    "I won't crawl,"

    "Most of all,"

    "I won't fall,"

    "For you."


    "And lies,"

    "Truth will rise,"

    "Revealed by mirrored eyes."


    I believe this is actually Summer Rose. Somehow she found out the truth about the past. About the enumerable deaths throughout the ages at the hands of Ozpin's coercive nature, and she chose not to sacrifice herself. In doing so she broke the chain. Salem was let loose on the world again. Ozpin didn't hear from Summer again, so he assumed she had gone through with it and died like all the others. She's still out there, somewhere.

    The moon is breaking apart from the sheer power being exerted from it over the years in the form of the warriors sacrificing themselves. The power is fading, like an enormous ticking time bomb that you can watch in the sky every night.

    Whatever power is going to defeat Salem, it isn't going to be Ruby's eyes. Or maybe she'll end up sacrificing herself like so many others.

    Thanks for reading if you made it through all that.

    For those that didn't.

    tl;dr - Ozpin has been sacrificing silver eyed warriors over the years to freeze Salem, like Ruby froze the dragon. And Salem is only now free because something happened to Summer. Either Summer found out the truth and refused, couldn't because the moon's powers were fading as it broke apart so it wasn't strong enough to refreeze Salem, or she simply died outright.

  • Sybaen

    Sybaen FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33157808 - 2 years ago


  • AgentSarge

    AgentSarge FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Friendly Local Ghoul

    #33157965 - 2 years ago

    An interesting potato... I will be intrigued to see if it sprouts.

  • unsold_hearts


    #33157986 - 2 years ago

    Cool theory...or...interesting potato as Sarge put it. I just love theories that use the soundtrack lyrics, lol.

  • TheGreatKoz

    TheGreatKoz FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33161938 - 2 years ago

    I really like this, it led me to this, what if Ruby did kill Cinder, (albeit it would be a shame for such an interesting character to go so quick) or perhaps Ruby will eventually kill Cinder, if the power would be passed on to as it sometimes is passed on to the maiden's killer, Ruby would become a fusion of a silver-eyed warrior and a maiden, a silver eyed maiden, she may be strong enough to take down Salem,

    However I believe your theory about Salem is wrong, at least partially, I don't think she was locked up before the creation of the maidens, I think she's the original winter maiden and she's taken spring's and summer's powers and that caused Ozpin so much grief he locked her away with the help/sacrifice of the silver-eyed warriors, however summer rose died before she had the chance to seal Salem away causing the events of RWBY to unfold.

  • Drake_The_Gunman


    #33163094 - 2 years ago

    Interesting, controlling humanity may well be Salem's endgame. My own pet theory is that the Grimm were created (possibly by Salem) to suppress human growth. In Remanent, there are only four nations, each on different ends of the globe. Perhaps Salem wishes for humanity to only stay within certain areas, to keep from populating the entire planet. However, with technological advancements, maybe the kingdoms were gearing up to settle more areas of the planet. In response to this, Salem realized that the Grimm alone were not enough to keep humanity down forever, and would need to interfere with their plans. This could well explain why the CCT system was targeted, by knocking out communication, cooperation between nations is much harder, throwing a wrench in any expansion plans.

    Of course, I could be completely wrong and Salem just wants to kill humanity 'cuz evil or something.

  • Average_Luck_Human_Being


    #33180353 - 2 years ago

    Really interesting theory.

    I don't think Salem wants to wipe out humanity. Torchwick has seemed to know their plans and joined them to survive, which may indicate that
    a) they seem to be pretty unstoppable and all Ozpin can do is delay the catastrophe

    b) a lot of people will die but not all of them

    Also Cinder, Em and Merc may not be the most morally right acting beings but they are not stupid. What reason would they have to wipe out humanity (and Faunusity ^^) for nothing?

    Also I think that although Ozpin may expect the silver eyed warriors to die, he doesn't think it is impossible for them to defeat Salem. After all he has this "maybe victory lies in a smaller more honest soul" talk with her in Ep1 of Season 1.
    In "The wizard of Oz" this girl with the ruby colored shoes defeats the wicked witch of the north by not wanting to kill her in the first place (or something like that. She pours water on her by accident and for some reason that causes her to melt. The girl says she hasn't wanted to do so though). So even if your theory is true there is still hope for Ruby.

    In all honesty: That's a very, very plausible theory of yours. And it fits perfektly with the song.

  • FireTiger07


    #33692421 - 11 months ago

    In reply to Average_Luck_Human_Being

    The Wizard of Oz theory makes perfect sense!! It took me probably longer than most to catch on to the idea of Ozpin's fairytale character being the Wizard of Oz, which explains:

    -  The green colour scheme (Emerald city!) 

    -  The mistakenly placed trust (Ironwood and Glinda talk about how they trusted him for years, but then Ironwood decides he's placed his trust in the wrong person and decided to take things into his own hands)

    -  An ally literally called "Glinda Goodwitch"

    -  The name (often called "Oz") 

    and of course, the possibility of him being 


    (Wizard of Oz knew he wasn't strong enough to defeat the witch so hid behind a screen in Emerald City)

    WHO GAVE GIFTS (so to speak) TO 3 OTHERS out of 4

    (1 heart to the lion, maybe summer, oil for the tin man, possibly winter, and a brain to the scarecrow, possibly fall or autumn depending on where you're from).

    In the Wizard of Oz, the 4 friends thought that they could use these new things they had been given (or 'discovered') to defeat the wicked witch.

    But before this can happen, Dorothy - the girl with the RUBY shoes - is kidnapped by the witch's flying monkeys. In RWBY, Salem sends Tyrian to "Find the girl who did this to Cinder and bring her to me"... And as we know, Tyrian is a scorpion Faunus, which could be represented by the flying monkeys, who clearly aren't human.

    The Wizard of Oz story ends with, as Average_Luck_Human_Being said, by the girl with the ruby shoes accidentally killing the wicked witch. 

    So here's the theory thus far: 

    1)  Ruby & co go to defeat Salem & co

    2)  After a bit of fighting, Ruby finds Qrow and Oz (along with anyone else who took on Salem directly)      defeated and somehow ends up hearing Salem's plan. This is the good bit!

    3) After hearing Salem's idea, this sweet, naïvely optimistic and once morally unfaltering girl realises that Salem is right about humanity and her way to deal with it all (this probably won't happen because that's what makes her Ruby, but still, it would be a good twist and very interesting character development) and decides she doesn't want to defeat Salem anymore, because there needs to be darkness for there to be light, etc. 

    4) OR maybe Salem's plan is irrelevant, because she'll never be able to win and neither will Oz, because light can't exist without darkness etc etc and so Ruby realises that people will always be fighting to stop Salem or to stop Oz, and either way people will lose their lives because of this never ending feud, as neither can ever be completely destroyed. 


    And teaches her next daughter to do the same when they start to... you know... defrost. And so the Silver eyed rose girls will forever uphold this duty every time either of the two beings begin to stir. Obviously it would take a huge toll on Ruby and her descendants, possibly killing them, or turning them into grim, or something dark like that. And that way the series could end by showing Ruby sacrificing herself to save the world not from darkness, but from CONFLICT. 

    And after this, someone (perhaps pyhrra) narrating the epilogue showing how each of the kingdoms came together as one to help each other etc etc and all of Ruby's female descendants sacrificing themselves forever after... until one of them doesn't. Either through free will or through some inconvenience that prevents her from getting there on time. And that could lead the way to another series...

    Just a thought  blush