Forums > RWBY

Resurrection in RWBY

Posts (43)

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33227184 - 1 year ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Its tricky if the experience wasnt something that reshaped her personality then yes you are right but if she is forgetting important things that did have large impacts on her then you are wrong.


    Memory loss especially in this case is TRICKY. I am not going to assume I understand all the ways this can go right or sideways.

    Only that it can.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33227190 - 1 year ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Once we get to a certain point, we have a steady base. Maybe Penny won't be as outgoing as she was if she never made friends with Ruby, but she will likely still be a good person who wants to make friends.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33227197 - 1 year ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Agreed but its just hard to say how that will effect her and not effect her because if its a backup she cant recover those lost memories they never were there for HER.

    But Ruby and Co may not understand that.

    Its just hard to say.

  • -Derek-

    -Derek-

    #33227362 - 1 year ago

    I dont want revival. So many animated shows make deaths and sacrifices pointless or worse yet uses deaths as a cheap ploy for fan emotes.

    I like that death is a consequence and I dont want that overturned just so people will get their ship back. (I especially dont want it after fans on other sites were saying they was "ruining monty's stork" when they was following his plans)


    As for Penny. She's a machine so as much as it annoys me she literally can be rebuilt. Though I would like to see this more as a "Penny's sister" in which Penny was just one of several projects of her father.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33227410 - 1 year ago

    In reply to OtherGram

    I think they should undo deaths because they were all horrible writing decisions. Death can be done right, but RT screwed the pooch, and there is so much more to explore with their characters.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33227442 - 1 year ago

    In reply to OtherGram

    .....You know what, other than this post, I'm not going to bother. I can destroy your black-and-white worldview on resurrection very easily, but I already know from your posts here that you'd never listen, so I'm not going to waste my breath any further.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33227590 - 1 year ago

    Alright, I'll admit I went off on Gram more than I should have. Bad weekend, shouldn't have taken that out on him. My issue is the blanket of "revival is bad no matter the story being written" that's being thrown around. I actually understand where Gram's coming from quite a bit, in that we have a good amount of examples of resurrection that were written or implemented badly in recent years, most commonly in the shonen genre and in comic books. One recent example would be Orihime from Bleach. The second they showed her power being capable of bringing back someone who was vaporized from the waist up, the concept of death did become cheapened. However, I was also taking other things into consideration beyond the act of the revival itself, and ONLY setting my willing suspension of disbelief withing the confines of the series, such as the fact that Orihime's the one in control of that power, the ease at which she can bring it to bear, as well as her character traits. At the same time, there was at least one case where there was a good story told for someone else BECAUSE it was Orihime that held that power. Specifically, Apacci of Harribel's Fraccion in an official side story that took place in the immediate aftermath of the Fake Karakura Town battle. Simply put, Apacci valued Harribel so highly that she swallowed her own pride and begged Orihime to heal her Captain. Literally dragged her own wounded self into the Shinigami's camp (which put herself at extreme risk of death) just to beg her for help.

    The other point that I'm trying to make is that resurrection is still a valid tool in a writer's repertoire that can be used to tell an incredibly dramatic story, albeit a tool that should be very much handled with care. Based on the limitations set for the tool of resurrection, you can make a story out of questions like "is it worth the risk to do this?", and those questions can be pursued by both hero and villain alike. Ra's al Ghul thought it was worth the risk to use one of his Lazarus Pits on Jason Todd, since a good deal of his motivation was that Bruce Wayne succeeds him as the head of his organization, despite knowing full well of the risk of mental instability that comes with the Pits' effects, drawbacks he himself experiences when he uses them to extend his longevity.

    Believe it or not, an example of a good revival tool WAS the Dragonballs, at least until they had Dende create a customized set during the Cell arc. That set didn't have the "one revival per person" limitation that Kami set did, so it was at that point where death really became cheap as a concept for that series. At the same time, it was hitting the limits of Kami's set that sparked the Namek arc to begin with, moreso since they'd also lost that set when Piccolo died (they wouldn't have been able to bring Chaoztu back with Kami's set anyway). Still, there was a story to tell based on the fact that they were willing to risk travel to an unknown planet and brave the dangers there just for the opportunity to get their friends back. The one big thing I only recently realized is that Bulma, Krillin and Gohan didn't consider the possibility that the quest might have been a fool's errand from the start, just from the lack of information. They simply assumed that another set would be enough to revive ALL of their friends, but as a "what if" scenario, that when they get around to asking for Chaoztu's life to be returned, Porunga has this line for them:

    "That soul has already been touched by our magic in that manner and cannot be touched so again."

    NOW you've established a point where death has some finality to it, since in this manner, you make the point that the Dragonballs have the same magic at their cores, even if the person creating each set is different. Then the quest started way back when becomes bittersweet, because while you've succeeded in returning Tein and Yamcha to life, you were never able to do that for Chaotzu and Krillin, and now they also know that they can't do it again for the first two, no matter how many sets of Dragonballs they have access to.

    Even then, I take the mindset that with every concept that's available to a writer, including death and revival, I see it in the scope of each piece of fiction on its own and set my willing suspension of disbelief based on that. A gritty, real-world+ series with no supernatural elements whatsoever like Black Lagoon or Jormungand would have their options extremely limited, to the point where the only thing I'd be willing to accept is the "Not Really Dead" use of character revival. And while I have not seen RvB, I understand the issues with how I've heard of the way that they brought Donut back, since the Haloverse, IIRC, is the same level of grittiness and therefore really doesn't lend itself well to the resurrection of organic characters. With RWBY, I don't get that sense of real-world ultra-realism (especially because Salem as a key representative of the supernatural elements wa supposedly ALWAYS a thing from the beginning), despite what's already happened, so I'm more willing to consider the resurrection options liberally. It's still gotta be written well, which I'll restate IS a hard thing to do. However, it CAN be done; the idea that it absolutely cannot is both a falsehood and an extreme line of thought that I find no value in entertaining. Despite what you may think, it is NOT an iron-clad rule that character resurrection negates the death being reversed or cheapens the concept of death just by its mere presence in the story.

    "I like that death is a consequence and I dont want that overturned just so people will get their ship back."

    You're also assuming that this is the ONLY reason why people want Pyrrha back. The vast majority of us see the potential in story-telling in her continued use as a character in her own right, not just as a vehicle for others (and that includes her own death).

    "(I especially dont want it after fans on other sites were saying they was "ruining monty's stork" when they was following his plans)"

    Now this part of your last post makes you come off as somewhat spiteful towards anyone who saw flaws in the writing (and there are both many and major, ones that go far beyond Pyrrha's death), at least as spiteful as you probably think I am. Sorry, but Monty, for all the respect and praise he got, is still human and just as capable of flaws as any of us. No one's work is above criticism.


    Odds are, I'm probably not going to convince you completely, Gram. But I hope that, at least, I've gotten you to at least think about where the other side of this is coming from, and that there's a good deal of gray in what you currently see as an absolute situation. I at least have given you that courtesy. I know where you're coming from with your viewpoint, and while I ultimately do not agree with it for these reasons and several beyond this, I still understand it.








  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33227625 - 1 year ago

    In reply to MEK1724

    As far as you're concerned, I see no value in extending you the same courtesy, as I've realized my mistake in doing so once before. Your argument style is not geared towards proving your own points, and you're not really concerned with proving your own points if you even have them. You're out to win the argument and have the last word, and you do that by setting the rules of the argument from the beginning so that your opponent cannot prove theirs enough to you, at least in your own mind. I'd accuse you of "moving the goalposts", but it's not really that. What you do is set the goalpost so far back from the start, knowing your opponent will never be able to reach it. When we argued about things some time back, you kept refusing my points on the grounds that I didn't have ironclad proof. Problem is, due to the unfinished status of the series, speculation and conjecture, albeit all within the confines of the series, was the best I could do, and you knew that. In addition, if you actually DO have a point you're trying to make, you try WAY too hard to brow-beat people into seeing things your way. The second you broke out medical journals to argue a point in our argument was when I realized all this.

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.1

    #33227690 - 1 year ago

    In reply to MEK1724

    You do make some points but I will ask if Pyrrha does in fact come back would you be fine with it al long as they made it work?

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33227713 - 1 year ago

    I like to cite Winter Soldier. Widely considered one of the best Marvel films, its entire plot himges not just on a single person not being dead, but an entire organixation.


    And lets be honest, the Winter Soldier is a much more interesting character than Bucky Barnes as himself was.


    If Pyrrha is brought back, thats how I want it to be done.

  • ImmaThinkin

    ImmaThinkin

    #33227728 - 1 year ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    So, you want her to have survived, and as a result, to turn into even more of a badass?

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33227773 - 1 year ago

    In reply to ImmaThinkin

    I mean, wouldn't that be awesome?

  • ImmaThinkin

    ImmaThinkin

    #33227849 - 1 year ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    Yeah, but I don't think she can come back on her own. It would be too much like the RvB characters.


    "Hey guys, guess who?"

    "B*TCH, YOU DEAD!"

    "Not anymore."

    "OKAY, HOW?"

    "... :/ ... reasons."

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.1

    #33227923 - 1 year ago

    I find the It lessons the impact of death argument kind of weak because then you'd have to say that about every time in media that it's happen'd. For example some character's have been resurrected in Game of Thrones but that didn't stop people from bawling when poor Hodor held the door, it really just comes down to how well it's pulled off.


    And honestly I find the whole it lessens the concept of death argument more of a rule in how to bringing a character back well.

  • SAmaster

    SAmaster

    #33227970 - 1 year ago

    In reply to JROY

    I've found in media, when you look at it, it doesn't matter so much what the body count is, it matters what the creator can get you to think. I've seen shows with people dropping left and right with no tension, and shows with not a single death with a ton of it. Tension isn't something you can artificially create but just killing characters, it's a matter of the skill of the creator.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33227980 - 1 year ago

    In reply to SAmaster

    A VERY good example of this Is what Comes around by Vathara a Magi AU that is GOOD. So far none of the characters have died but they are placed in situations where if they are not careful they can and WILL die. There is a tool that keeps coming up Chains that drain the flow of life inside you for people strong of will it weakens and makes them easy to control but for weaker people its LETHAL and the bad guys are using it on CHILDREN.

    So no no one of the main cast has died nor secondary but the places they go and the things they do rack up the tension because Vathara makes it clear this isnt children's games.


  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.1

    #33228211 - 1 year ago

    In reply to MEK1724

    First of all don't worry bud I'm not one to gloat if I'm right nor will I get mad if I'm proved wrong, which you seem to be the same way.


    As for idea's for her coming back I guess there's two I feel have merrit and they are one's you probably heard before That being the Corrupt Villain theory (My favorite) and the Emerald illusion theory.


    I'll start with the corrupt villain theory. Why I like this one is just there so many ways it could go both in the greater plot as well as the personal stories we're following. We know the villains like to attack they're enemy's not just physically but emotionally as well. Given Pyrrha's fame she would be a great emotional weapon not just against our heroes but against greater Remnant as well, as she would cause further confusion and disunity when people see her doing less than stellar things. The biggest thing for though of course is how it would tie in with Jaune. Pyrrha was Jaune's teacher, partner, best friend, and possible love interest, so I'd imagine his journey to become stronger would be more interesting and investing if the end goal was to defeat and possibly save Pyrrha. I especially like the idea if that happened that they're final fight would take place on the balcony where they trained together. Plus Pyrrha would have a badass Villain design.


    As for the Emerald theory I don't personally see it but I do admit that the setup IS there for it. The only one that I've found interesting combines this with the theory some have that Ozpin can manipulate time. Basically it has a repentant Emerald go back to the event of the tower and sacrificing herself using her semblance to take Pyrrha's place while Pyrrha is whisked off to whatever future the story has in store for us while also ensuring time doesn't chance. It's pretty much a redemption for Emerald.


    So that's pretty much my thoughts. I'm sure if Pyrrha does come back it will work in the story just fine but if she doesn't I'll accept it. Again if she does come back I don't want to rub it in I'd rather discuss the implication of it happening here on the forums.

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.1

    #33228225 - 1 year ago

    In reply to MEK1724

    If you want to check out my favorite interpretation of Pyrrha coming back (as well as just a fun interpretation of the future of the show) check out the fan fiction Resurgence.