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RWBY Volume 5: In-Depth Discussion/Speculation/Spoilers (All Things Must Die {FINALE})

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  • 4654ryan

    4654ryan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708031 - 11 months ago

    Glad I got that off my chest

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33708034 - 11 months ago

    In reply to spoolofwhool

    And while the picture that the audience paints for themselves might be wildly different than what is ultimately presented, the job of the writer is to give the audience the tools they need to start painting, and they did not even do that much for the Silver Eyes.  It's one of the two biggest points of comparison in my DBZ/RWBY piece.  I mean, no one ever expected such a physical change in Goku, but they effectively gave us an idea of what a Super Saiyan was going to be long before it actually manifested, using Vegeta and Freeza to do it.

  • notvai4

    notvai4

    #33708064 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    I am also bored, so

    1)Nooooope, even not considering how crazy that is, she seems way too young for that to have happened.

    2)I don't think Neo's been back at all, certainly not in a speaking role at least.

    3)Again, nah.

    4)Definitely not, she would not abandon Ruby for anything, and I don't buy into the "Ozpin is evil" theory.

    5)Extremely unlikely.

    6)Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaybe. I don't think it's likely, but I don't think it's impossible.

    7)Maybe. Jaune says his father, grandfather, and great-grandfather were all warriors/heroes, which seems likely to reach back the 80/81 years to the great war. I dunno how relevant this would be to anything though, Jaune's gotten no special treatment from anybody for his heritage so far.

    8)Emerald quitting or running off seems pretty likely, I agree. Becoming the Fall Maiden seems extremely unlikely though. I doubt she'd kill Cinder, and Cinder doesn't care about Emerald enough to think of her when as she dies.

    9)I believe Neo recognized Raven, but I doubt Raven knows or cares about Neo.

    10)I would also guess that.

    11)Winter being the Winter Maiden seems like the obvious route to take, which I think is how they're gonna do it. Everything's so perfectly lined up: 

    -characters with the names Summer, Winter, and Fall

    -set of 4 super powers that can only be transfered to young girls in a show about 4 young girls

    -connections between Summer and Ruby, Winter and Weiss, Raven and Yang

    With the exceptions of there being no "Spring" and no real connection between Cinder and Blake, everything's kinda obvious. And I'm okay with that. Honestly, not going that route would feel weirder and just for the sake of confusing the audience.

    As for the visiting thing...was that a thing? I don't remember it. Assuming it happened and I just forgot, and with the condition that Winter is the Winter Maiden, Winter and Cinder did both meet Ozpin within a close time-frame. Raven is the only one we were not shown doing so, though with the amount of crows in the series, you could say she got close enough to count. It'd be an interesting thing to think about, and would narrow who the Summer Maiden could be, if only by a bit.

  • user-572df514355fe

    user-572df514355fe

    #33708083 - 11 months ago

    In reply to revanninja and sienna Khan too. (what a waste of such a potential character)

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.3

    #33708085 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    You do know the show is becoming a bit notorious for killing off characters with popular voice actors.

  • user-572df514355fe

    user-572df514355fe

    #33708088 - 11 months ago

    In reply to JROY So what else is new?  unamused

  • 4654ryan

    4654ryan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708093 - 11 months ago

    In reply to JROY

    I see what you mean but they didn't kill him off and we are going to Atlas next season so maybe we will see him again

  • Dreamsandweirdness

    Dreamsandweirdness FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708104 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    because he saw her alone maybe? and all the reasons Wrightknight gave

  • Dreamsandweirdness

    Dreamsandweirdness FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708105 - 11 months ago

    In reply to spoolofwhool

    the point of me saying it was, while you might want them to build it up slowly, the way I see it is that the writers wanted it to be a sudden shock event, instead of one being slowly built up so even if they didn't use the time, I doubt they'd have filled it in with that. So it was less of a lack of resources or time but more of a how they wanted it to be revealed

  • 4654ryan

    4654ryan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708119 - 11 months ago

    In reply to mattcjx 

    Could be she was just Hawt but I just think that it fits the bill of Neo really well. 

    1) The person looked like Neptune and there is no good reason for why CRWBY would deliberately make a character look similar to another ( his name was literally shitty Neptune in production) soo why did they make Henry look like him. the only good reason I can come up with is it was Neo trying to get close to Weiss using her ex's body.

    2) Neo would want to hunt down Ruby because of Torchwick and the she could try to get to her through Weiss.

    3) He was kind of unnecessary and I get he was helpful to the atmosphere the scene was going for he was also an unnecessary focus of the scene.


    Does no one else think something is off about him. Even the snootiest of trophy wives and douchiest of business men knew that the party was a charity event and he is the only person to be introduced by name in that scene. he was a focus of that scene and deliberately seeked out Weiss. he was way to young to be at that event and has a experienced voice actor. just one or two of those things I could forgive but he was introduced unnecessarily and now we are going back to Atlas. We had less introduction to velvet in season 1 and we got her back to play a reasonably important role in the next seasons. come on people.

  • spoolofwhool

    spoolofwhool

    #33708128 - 11 months ago

    In reply to mattcjx

    I didn't say that they needed to explain the whole thing nor build things up slowly. I just said they needed to give more indication that there might've been something significant about her silver eyes. Shock value does not mean that it has to be a complete asspull out of nowhere. 

    Wrightknight talked about DBZ, and how while Super Saiyans themselves weren't indicated, there was the indication that there was some significant power that Saiyans possessed that was legendary. They could've done the same here, have Team Rwby studying history and coming across a mention of silver-eyed warriors who allegedly had some great power. Basically, have Qrow's explanation at the end of V3 happen before the power was revealed, and made a bit more vague and not from him. That would've been at least something.

    And it's not just the Silver Eyes. There's a lot of worldbuilding, or at least minor setup, that should've happened pre-V4. Spending time on minor characters like Velvet was not an efficient use of the short time given.



  • 4654ryan

    4654ryan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708140 - 11 months ago

    In reply to spoolofwhool 

    I agree. I think one of the best things about RWBY is its world. the minor characters like velvet, Neptune and Neo were left out of volume 4 and 5 and whilst  the world building in volume 4 was good I think one of the biggest problems was focusing so much on the main characters plot lines which were kind of boring. The Yang and Weiss plot lines in volume 4 was good but the Blake plot line was badly paced and volume 5s Ruby plot line was very bad. also no one liked the long drawn out 3 episode fight. we spent so little time exploring Mistral and I think that the Oscar training arc was unnecessary.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33708175 - 11 months ago

    In reply to mattcjx

    Some plans are bad in their inception, not just in their execution.  Simply put: it was a bad idea to have something so massive be a shock moment.  Just because the writers wanted it to be that way does not mean that doing it that way was EVER going to be effective, or that we have to accept it.  Believe it or not, a big part of being a fan is calling out a writer's bad idea when we see it.  By comparison, look at the speculation that has come up from Raven claiming that she knows people who can come back from the dead.  It's the fact that we can, by logic of the pieces of the timeline that we HAVE been given, along with the dialogue sequence, exclude Ozpin, the ONLY person that WE have seen "come back from the dead".  You also have to figure that because Raven put that dialogue sequence into a conversation with Yang about how Yang should not be trusting Ozpin, you have to figure that if Raven WAS talking about Ozpin as the person she knows can come back, she really would not have been cryptic about it.  Combine all that with the fact that Raven does not give ANY details about who or, more importantly, how one comes back from the dead, and you can conclude that, at some point, someone is going to do just that: be resurrected.  Perhaps it ends up being one of team RWBY.  Perhaps it ends up being PYRRHA, regardless of how a decent part of the fanbase will howl and scream about that even though they cannot objectively exclude her at this moment.  The point is, they've started setting it up.  They gave us what is effectively a sign post to look down a path, but nothing more, and that's all they need to do for now.  THAT is effective build-up, because the writers, for fucking ONCE in this series, used prior established information to start building up a massive payoff.

  • 4654ryan

    4654ryan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708179 - 11 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    We have got big pay offs such as the Raven vs Cinder fight and Weiss' summoning but I admit some things were built up and then failed like Hazels back story or some weren't built up enough like the silver eyes. I think hype is a hard thing to manage because it can go wrong very easily. take Neo for instance. whilst bringing her back at this point is just fan service (which boy do they need after volume 5) but she has been built up to be this cheeky, scary, skilled sociopath and people really want to see her back but she has no place in RWBY and bringing her back could ruin a fan favourite character. some things just hit you like a curved ball and I think that there was a lot of built up resolutions in volume 3 with the Blake Adam confrontation, velvets vs the paladins and Weiss' semblance so I think that being surprised by Ruby's silver eyes and Phyrra's death added a feeling of shock as we were hit with a curved ball and we land flat on our asses thinking what the hell just happened. I think that it is important to build some things up but somethings are best left a surprise. how you take the surprise is your choice but if you ask me I think volume 3 was one of the best volume in RWBY partly because it closed the beacon chapter so well and we got so many great pay offs. in terms of the resurrection line I do not think they will bring Phyrra back. Her death was nesacery for Jaunes evolution. some characters like Summer and Watts still remain mysteries but I think that returning characters will be. Penny possibly, SSN and CFVY unlikely but possible, Ironwood, Winter and Klein definetly and Neo, Plz for the love of God Neo.

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.3

    #33708180 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    We'll probably see CFVY again, more likely when they return to Vale to retake Beacon. Neo's been pretty much confirmed to return and they didn't rule out at least the return of Neptune in future volumes.

  • 4654ryan

    4654ryan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708185 - 11 months ago

    In reply to JROY

    Neptune could be introduce before we leave Mistral. Sun could seek him out and be like hey do you want to come support team RWBY and go to Atlas with me. Most likely Velvet will either meet up with the new white fang Ghira is forming or be at the final battle at beacon. Neo could be anywhere, want anything and be anyone. ANYONE. seriously where is that ice cream bitch.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33708195 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    And there's that word again: "necessary".  The fact that they all lost their safety net in Beacon itself is reason enough for Jaune to "evolve", not the death of his partner.  That was needless aesthetic on this front.  And of course, there's the implicit argument that bringing her back will somehow turn back the clock on character development, which is not absolutely true.  And you thinking that they won't bring Pyrrha back is one thing.  Objectively ruling her out as the possible target is another, and that is something that NO ONE can objectively do as of right now.  That is fact.

    And the things that you thought were built up effectively were, but they are minor in comparison to the concept of the Silver Eyes.  When you construct something (and you ARE doing this when you write a story), you must put up a solid foundation under your most important pieces, or else the structure is not sound.  There is no such structure underneath the Silver Eyes, so the foundation does not hold its narrative weight.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33708198 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    I am going to agree with Wright here Pyrrha was not needed to evolve Jaune.

    There is a lot of ways to make him evolve and develop and none of them need pyrrha to die for him to evolve. With the school being destroyed Penny's death Amber's death and so on there is a lot of fodder to make Jaune grow and develop and its not like Jaune wasnt already evolving before this point.

    Her coming back also in no way shape or form also undoes what Jaune has gone through in fact it can underline it since who he is now is different then who he was then. Add in how Pyrrha comes back will effect things and can more then change Jaune.


    Her coming back has a LOT of Payout and emotional depth to it plus how it interacts with characters.

  • FettucCR

    FettucCR

    #33708201 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    I believe Marigold is not a character as such, but a plot point. Let me explain:


    Weiss is shocked by how little people did actually care about the Beacon tragedy. So, the plot called for a character on which she (and us as audience) could focus their anger. That character is Marigold. He's just the condensation of Atlas' contempt, all rolled in one punchable face. And because of this (and because he did try to hit on her) a name was required. This is how I see it.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33708211 - 11 months ago

    In reply to FettucCR

    And that is why I compared his functional use to Velvet's: hers is the same kind of function, but for the systematic racism the Faunus experience.  I think I said it just as well earlier: it is more impacting for a character to say such lack of sentiment to Weiss's face, rather than her get angry over just hearing the random talk about it.  And in that aspect, both Velvet and Marigold have served their function effectively.  While the writers certain CAN give them more function that adds to the narrative, there is a risk in terms of the run-time that might make them LOSE function elsewhere by taking that time away from other, more important characters, which is what I'm essentially saying about Velvet's later use.

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.3

    #33708223 - 11 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    In reply to WrightKnight

    In reply to 4654ryan


    First of all before I continue, WrightKnight, this is a RUMORits just speculation from the fandom there has never been any confirmation of this.


    Anyways there is speculation among the fandom was that given that one of Monty's fav anime's was Gurren Lagenn, it might have been the influence for his decision regarding Pyrrha, him wanting to make her his "Kamina" of  RWBY. Now as I said this is just speculation nobody has actually asked what the major influence in deciding Pyrrha's fate was.



  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33708225 - 11 months ago

    In reply to JROY

    I have heard that as well but Soul Eater is more commonly presented and if I recall is actually on one of his monitors during an interview.

    And even if it was its clear Pyrrha and Jaune DONT fit the mold of Kamina and Simon. Simon's whole reason for doing everything was because kamina said lets do it. That is actually the point of Simon story he isnt Kamina but he does embrace the dream. Its WHY that scene at the end has a Kamina who grovels to live while the Ghost of Kamina just says pick whichever one you want. And its Simon's choice that determines it.

    Kamina shaped Simon but after he was gone Simon choose to continue the path.To take up the mantle left by his Bro. The Kamina that Simon believes in that believes in Simon.


    Pyrrha and Jaune dont share that sort of relationship. Yes Pyrrha shaped Jaune as a warrior but Jaune and his reasons for being a hunter are not shaped by her. Her Death adds to them and gives a personal touch but he hasnt changed his motives because of her.


    So Pyrrha and Kamina dont share the same role once you go past the basic level and its really clear Monty WASNT trying to recreate Kamina in Pyrrha.

  • FettucCR

    FettucCR

    #33708227 - 11 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Yes, I agree. They're both lending their face to a problem the show tackles, and thus make it closer to the characters. But Velvet became popular, so she was given more on-screen time. I doubt this will ever happen to Marigold. 

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33708228 - 11 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Not only that, but Kamina's death actually accomplished something.  One, he took out the first Beastman general.  Two, doing that netted them a base of operations by commandeering that general's ship.  All Pyrrha's death did was unlock the Silver Eyes, a role that she was, as I've detailed out effectively, narratively inappropriate for.  It's one thing to argue that the writers wanted it this way, it's another to imply that because of that want, we cannot call it out as flawed.  That is the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy.

  • losLena07

    losLena07 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33708241 - 11 months ago

    In reply to 4654ryan

    Honestly, this may be one of the first things you've said that I mostly agree on.