HUGE thanks to @Calxiyn for making a video for those who dont wanna read all this! though i added a third update at the bottom!
So before i start i know, most of this i already said in the RWBY Volume 5: In-Depth Discussion/Speculation/Spoilers thread, But honestly, i feel like the topic of Ozpin and Salem is one that is large enough to warrant a thread dedicated to it.
And ofcorse, spoilers if your not caught up on the latest chapters. And warning, wall of text/really large post inbound. I had a lot on my mind it would seem lol.
As of late ive been re-watching the previous chapters and volumes, and ive been picking up a lot of interesting information it seems people have overlooked, and honestly, its pretty significant. Specifically information on Ozpin.
So now i will post what i noticed Yesterday, and what i noticed today, for those who didn't see my previous posts.
Here is what i noticed Yesterday. Back in Chapter 6 of Volume 3. Fall, Ozpin asks Pyrrha what her favorite fairytale is, the first one she says is "The Tale of the Two Brothers" No doubt about the two gods. And also Ozpin said "Would you believe me if i told you that one has been around since i was a boy?" when talking about the story of the seasons. Then not long after that, Glenda said that the maidens have been around for thousands of years. Ozpin said in Chapter 3 of Volume 5 Unforeseen Complications, that he's been around for thousands of years. Which would indicate that he was around during that time.
But then there is what i realized and discovered today. In chapter 8 of Volume 4, A Much Needed Talk, Qrow says this.
Ren: But... what does that have to do with us?
Qrow: Well, that's the kicker. See, the four gifts to mankind - knowledge, creation, destruction and choice - aren't just metaphorical. Each of them exists in a physical form, left behind by the gods before they abandoned Remnant.
And in Chapter 3 of Volume 5, Unforeseen Complications, Ozpin says this,
Ozpin: I am the combination of countless men who’ve spent their lives trying to protect the people of Remnant. With every rebirth, my soul is eventually merged with another and I am changed, but my memories stay with me. This curse was bestowed upon me by the gods because i failed to stop Salem in the past.
The curse MUST have been bestowed upon him by the gods BEFORE they abandoned Remnant. Otherwise how could they? (More importantly, if they abandoned Remnant, which is a discussion all its own, they would have no reason to care what happens after they abandoned it.) Which would mean Ozpin and Salem have been around i dare say a lot longer then thousands of years.
So yeah that's what i posted in that thread and now here. Thus far from watching the older episodes and volumes ive discovered those bits of information. Its honestly very interesting. Ozpin seems to have been around even longer then he said, and Salem has been around just as long. If I'm interpreting this information correctly, Ozpin and Salem were both alive before the two gods abandoned Remnant, which must have been much more then just thousands of years, maybe tens of thousands, who knows how long, but they have existed for a very long time.
And in that case, should all of that be as true as it seems, they could have met the two gods, they were there when the relics were created, they were there when the gods abandoned Remnant. And if that is also true and they both were true alive all the way back then, then there is a really solid chance Ozpin really was the warrior king of Vale, and the Wizard from the story of the seasons as people have suspected.
And yes, this is all assuming everything Ozpin has said is true, but thus far he hasn't given us a reason not to believe him, at least not yet, despite the alleged *truth* Raven will tell Yang and Weiss, which we have no idea if she is just gonna tell them what we already know, bringing them up to speed, or telling us information about Ozpin we dont yet know about, i doubt it will be anything that will turn him into a liar. As this information ive discovered isn't relating to him being good or bad, which is a topic all its own, this is just in relation to how long him and Salem have actually been around, and the possible future and past implications of that. Besides the bit of him possibly being the warrior king and wizard. (Which has been confirmed!)
So what do you all think of this? and be sure to mention any thoughts you have and details you noticed aswell! Like i said before i think the topic of Ozpin and Salem is one that will continue to become more and more important as the series goes on. and i will likely Update this original post with any new things i find. After finding interesting information two days in a row, i will definitely be searching even more now.
Ya know what's funny? As much as Ozpin hasn't given us a reason not to believe him, Salem hasn't given us a reason not be believe her either. Just because she is supposed to be the *villain* does not mean she is a liar.
And now ive noticed
Salem: So you may prepare your guardians, build your monuments to a so-called "free world", but take heed... there will be no victory in strength.
Ozpin: But perhaps victory is in the simpler things "that you've long forgotten." Things that require a smaller, more honest soul.
That is starting to make me think they were not always enemies, something must have happened between then that caused this to unfold, and it must have been countless years ago.
Another thing worth noting. ozpin said the curse was bestowed upon him by the gods for failing to stop Salem in the past....but what did Salem try to do that would cause both the gods to curse Ozpin for failing to stop her. Whatever it was she did, she succeeded, but Ozpin was cursed for failing in stopping her...but whatever it is she did, she wasn't cursed?
If Salem wasn't cursed yet ozpin was, what does that say about what happened between the two? and how has Salem lived for so long if she wasn't given the same curse? We know she's human, or part of humanity because in the intro she says this.
Salem: Legends. Stories scattered through time. *Mankind has grown quite fond of recounting the exploits of heroes and villains, forgetting so easily that 'we' are remnants, byproducts, of a forgotten past.*
So, we know she is human, as she hasn't given us a reason not to believe her, same as Ozpin.
So now the big questions are. How does Salem and Ozpins past fit in the timeline? what exactly is the timeline of events? what happened between them to cause them to become enemies? And what did Salem do that resulted in the two gods cursing Ozpin for failing to stop her?
So after the most recent episode, its revealed that Ozpin gave Raven and Qrow the ability to become birds, while this isn't exactly bad, its not good either. And it begs the question what else has Ozpin done. Another revelation made recently is Sacrifice is clearly Ravens theme now. Rather then Cinders. So I'm curious now about those implications.
So, Ozpin has infact confirmed he was the wizard! Which adds even more to all the information that's been gathered thus far. We can safely guess Salem was and maybe is still human, they both were around during the time that the gods were on remnant before they left. We can safely guess Ozpin was definitely the warrior king of vale. We know now he was the Wizard. And both haven't given us a reason not to trust them. The question of why did the gods curse Ozpin for failing to stop Salem, and not Salem, for doing whatever it is she did remains. We dont know why they abandoned remnant and where they are now. And finally. We know Ozpin turned Qrow and Raven into their respective birds.
Should i make any new connections or discoveries i will update this thread and other places! :D