Don't forget that Weiss is gonna have to reconcile with the fact that she's going back to a place she spent several months trying to escape.
RWBY VOLUME 6 IN DEPTH DISCUSSION THREAD|Dead End
#33711420 - 9 months ago
Yeah. They should've either moved the Battle of Haven to the end of V6 instead, or wrapped up Menagerie within the first few episodes of V5. That would've given them enough time to deal with RNJR in Mistral, without Menagerie bloating things as well as undermining the season climax sort of.
#33711430 - 9 months ago
This is just a really wild possibility, but might be interesting. Noting that "Silver Eyes" has not be explained/defined, what if "Silver Eyes", besides being of extreme harm to Grimm, also absorbs "magic" and converts it to the wielder's aura. Now what if Cinder happens to actually be dead and, quite possibly, had Ruby in her mind as Raven froze her (What about Ruby? Why can't I destroy her? )? What if Ruby's "collapse" right after the fight into Weiss and Yang's arms was the Fall Maiden magic being "converted" by "Silver Eyes"? How might a "stronger" aura affect "Silver Eyes" and Ruby in general? Would Oz or Jaune notice?
Just a random thought... ^.-
#33711433 - 9 months ago
Quite true, but she'll be going back with her team and friends and wanting to see Winter again. That should come up VERY early and start being dealt with while they're still in Haven. Weiss might very well have reservations about going back, but I feel that she has a lot of unfinished business with Whitley and Jacque and I feel that Winter might just be on her side there.
We haven't encountered their mother yet and that could hold interesting possibilities, seeing that she IS a Schnee and DOES have the family semblance. Might we see Weiss and Winter joining with their mother to take back their family name AND business? Wouldn't it be interesting seeing mom go up against Jacque's "forces" to regain her family pride and name? And which side would Ironwood take?
#33711467 - 9 months ago
after reading through many comments, I get the feeling that they may have originally planned this, but due to backlash to V4 decided to cut it short, which sadly would have been a mistake
hm never thought about that, always kinda assumed her mum was dead tbh
Wait, when did Ruby collapse right into Weiss and Yang's arms? I seem to have forgotten that
#33711487 - 9 months ago
A bit of a misrememberance. Vol 5, Chap 14 right around 15:55. Yang finishes handing the lamp to Qrow and Qrow Says "We're all glad you're still here, firecracker" In the background, as Qrow says "firecracker", Ruby wavers and falls forward to her knees with a gasp. My mistake was saying that she fell into their arms. She collapsed to her knees and Weiss bent down to support her.
#33711505 - 9 months ago
Was a mistake?
Yeah. I don't know, I feel like if they changed the plan based on what the viewers were saying, then they still didn't understand the actual issues we had with the show. Pacing in V4 was weird, along with the fact that it was largely setup, which I know some people have complained about. Actually addressing those complaints would've involved improving the pacing in V5 and making good use of those setups. In actuality they wasted at least a few of those, such as Sienna Khan and Raven's tribe. I don't pay much attention to RT personally, so I don't know how much of their decision-making is due to the viewer reaction. I would rather little to none of it is, and they focus on telling the story they want to tell, versus letting the viewers push them around to a degree.
#33711545 - 9 months ago
ahh okay I remember now. the issue I have with that is, if that was possible considering Ruby wasn't only the silver eyed warrior, why had this not happened before? Because if she's able to absorb it, surely it would mean the power is gone and there no longer is any spring maiden?
the feeling I get is perhaps they felt that people didn't like the split too, and thus tried to rush it, which obviously wasn't to that good of an effect. But yeah, agreed that I'd rather them focus less on what viewers want, perhaps just taking into account some feedback eg pacing (which can be fixed without affecting the storyline they had in mind, I believe).
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33711562 - 9 months ago
The thing to keep in mind that MANY people dont is that by the time we see the first episode the season is already mostly done.
So they cant fix issues mid-season it used to be they could when they worked on each episode right up to release during vols 1 and 2 but that type of work style is VERY hard on the people doing it so they moved away from it.
So any fixes or retunes have to more or less happen after the season is done thought that said Kerry and Miles can in fact hear and start recognizing issues roughly mid-season.
Which that is something to point out tunnel vision is a real thing so Kerry and Miles plus their co-workers may not realize issues or how stuff comes across until they have a moment to step back and look at the work or get feedback.
So they may get so caught up in working on the project they dont see pacing and so forth issues because they are so busy just making the show.
As for viewers wants and feedbacks I dont think people realize how there is a small but HEAVILY vocal set of "fans" that are toxic in the extreme. Like calling for Miles to quit and die calling Jaune his self-insert and so forth. Its gotten so bad there is a Camp Camp blog that somehow or other people got it into their head Miles is a Mod for the site and so have been sending them crap and the little bit they have showed yeah its nasty. Miles Luna himself has actually gone onto twitter to say hey leave this site alone here is my actually tumblr and so forth.
So while it seems easy to dismiss those viewers and "Fans" from my understanding they generate a LOT of hate towards RWBY so it buries good critiques, views, and so forth under their volume.
Then there is the last issue which is the story they are going for and what they ultimately want to leave RWBY on may NEED these build ups and other like moments for later stuff.
Then there is what THEY feel they did right or wrong with the season after they take a few seconds and look at it. And that is with them knowing a LOT more then we do. So something we as the audience say is baffling or should have been removed they may say no that is perfect because its going to flow into something later down the line.
So what I am trying to get across its not simple there is several factors involved with them seeing issues and what steps they do or do not take to fix issues.
Its extremely complicated and with a lot of factors involved.
#33711570 - 9 months ago
The season should be mostly done by the time the first episode airs, but considering that they announced that the script for V5 done four days after episode one aired, that seems a bit unlikely in this case. Before you say it, yes, it might've been talking about finishing the fully revised script, but in that case, I think that it still wasn't a very well revised script and also, I think I saw somewhere that they were still writing the final episodes while travelling to events, shortly before the start of V5.
Either way, we're mostly talking about them changing V5 in response to V4 response, not changing V5 as its happening due to immediate viewer response.
To more broadly address the forum. How do people feel about the amount of time they spend producing Rwby? Does anyone feel like perhaps if it's possible, they should take more time to flesh out the script and animation more, such as taking four more months, if it would make the extended wait more worthwhile?
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33711575 - 9 months ago
They did say that but think about how much was already done and set in stone by the time episode one was made.
As in probably in all likely hood those last 2 episodes were the only ones being still worked on.
At that point there isnt much they can change.
Too much would already be finished.
That is like writing a term paper that is 25 pages long with sources and so on and they still need the last 5 pages to finish too much was already written and done for them to change at that point.
And that also ignores the fact they have VA schedules to handle animation and so on.
By that point in time the story was more or less locked in and any feedback would be too late.
They were working on 5 right after 4 so it still actually applies because there is some stuff they cant change because its either its important or because they lacked the ability to change due to setups. Then add in mixed signals from the fans and so on.
And also you are ignoring they DID change some stuff in 5 in response to 4 its just not what people wanted. Or it was not enough.
So my points as I was saying still actually stands.
As for your question for the board I think the issue is not time because they in all honesty have about the same amount of development time other animes have I think its more they are being limited.
Currently they hover about 15 min to 20 min per episode roughly where most shows have around half an hour for normal episodes and an hour for longer.
So I think they are being forced to compress and cut things due to time limits.
They also need more people in the writing chair not as taking over or anything like that but rather they hand the rough draft script to and they read it and then go okay why this and why not here?
Sort of like what Rewind did but Only to help spot issues with the script. Maybe Burnie since he is responsible for most of RvB seasons.
#33711579 - 9 months ago
I know it was already mostly finished and set in stone at that point. My point was more along the lines of that they probably should've finished it beforehand? I feel like finishing the script that late isn't very professional. Even it's an industry standard, I don't see the point of announcing it at that point since then you get people like me who don't understand the industry thinking that's it's unprofessional to be done that late. Anyhow, I don't get why you're so hung up on changing stuff during V5. Once again, no one suggested that.
Like I said, I think they should be ignoring the fans. Write the story they want to write. I didn't ignore that they changed stuff, I just think that they probably shouldn't have.
You say they compress and cut things, but I felt like there were a lot of void moments in the show which felt like they were filling up space because they didn't have anything tangible to fill it with. But overall, you're saying they need an editor for the script to help direct it and cut out the chaff? In that case I agree.
#33711584 - 9 months ago
most of what I'd say in response was already said by spoolofwhool, especially in that I never meant that they should change it during V5. It was more of a long term thing, so even if they couldn't use feedback for V4 since V5 was written by then, they can take it into account into V6. And what I meant was shown in the AMA by Miles and Kerry, where they acknowledged the stuff they had to work on (pacing and show not tell). This doesn't mean they should take into account everything fans say. They can look at it, relook at the show and analyse by themselves if it is true or whether they want to do anything about it. Never did I want them to blindly follow whatever fans say.
I don't want them to change the storyline just because of fans either, especially since there are always two sides. So in conclusion, all I said was they can take into account the feedback of fans going forward, but don't change anything drastic especially since (and I've said many times before) we as fans don't know everything they know. Yes, a lot of things may be setups for something bigger in the future and I definitely don't want them to change that. That was my stance from the get go. I mentioned that if it was true that they changed and sped up the events to get them back together early just because of the fans, that would have been a mistake as I would have rathered them continue with what they wanted.
I just thought I'd clarify because I wasn't sure if you misunderstood my position and are trying to argue against it, or just clarifying things.
But anyway I definitely agree with what you said, especially with the toxic negativity and personal attacks against their character.
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33711588 - 9 months ago
I neither misunderstood or was arguing against it
What I am trying to point out is that its not as simple as people think it is.
What they change adapt and so forth isnt as cut and dry as people make it out to be.
There is a lot of factors going into it and a lot of people dont recognize or apperciate that and instead act like its a simple easy matter to change things or take what the feedback is saying.
Also not hung up on vol 5 its just an easy example to use since it JUST happened.
If vol 6 happened and we were having this discussion I would use it as an example since nearlly everything is still going on. For example they are already working on vol 6 as we speak they started almost right after vol 5 aired.
So the points I am bringing up arent just for vol 5 but ALL volumes which is where you guys seemed confused.
Its actually not unheard of not common to be sure but often with big productions or hard pressed series it does happen.
I am not hung up on vol 5 I was speaking for ALL VOLUMES with that which is the issue here.
Vol 5 is just the easiest example since it just happened.
You both are kind of forcing that on me when I was just using it as an easy closest example of what I am talking about.
They enjoy a close relationship with their fans so that sort of thing is not possible they are going to listen to them.
See that is where we disagree I dont think those were Voids I have argued much of them where actually important because they were trying to express emotions and or present something.
As for editor again NO not what I was talking about.
What I was talking about is something offering an outsiders view to help point out stuff and make it clear. Another viewpoint.
Not an editor at all and completely off from what I was saying.
And to clear something up even back in vol 1 and 2 when Monty was alive and he would work on it up to release he wasnt working on the STORY or the pacing it was the animation he was doing working on smoothing it and so forth to make it into a cleaner video.
Which that misunderstanding seems to be a common mistake people do.
Story has ALWAYS been done before we see the first episode most of the time and if its not only the last bits arent by that time.
#33711607 - 9 months ago
Personally, I feel that the majority of problems the folks post about in Vol.4 & 5 were, most likely caused by the writing team trying to juggle multiple (5-7) story arcs at once. I know they say they dislike timelines because of the possibility of plot holes, but that is a weak reason considering that 90-95% of ALL stories today contain at least one, if not multiple, plot holes.
When you try to work with THAT many story arcs at one time, you really do need a timeline, albeit a simple one or a detailed one to keep things in check. Writing a weekly episodic series, you can't constantly time jump. Most viewers really won't be able to keep constant track over the real time space between episodes.
I admit that it can make interesting stories, but mostly in print, where folks then to digest larger chunks of story than they can in the average weekly episodic visual series. The writers should keep the multiple story arcs as close in time as possible and, if jumping within an episode, as they occur timewise. This all is based on the main story arc taking precedence and controlling the main passage of time. If that means that other story arcs continue in following Volumes, so be it.
I realise that artists (including RWBY's writers) basically write to please themselves (you can't please everybody, so you might as well please yourself), but there DOES need to be a bit of consideration for their intended consumers to make it "easy" for them to enjoy, especially if continuing the story kinda depends on an entity providing funding.
RWBY is a great story with a good crew that is only getting better. I'd love for RWBY to go on an rival " One Piece" or "Bleach" as a long running "anime". But that will ultimately depend on CRWBY constantly improving and the story continuing to be relevant and enjoyable to enough viewers to keep "the powers that be" approving future Volumes. (i.e. it makes business sense to keep it going|)
#33711662 - 9 months ago
I had a thought. I remember in V3 that Ironwood said the Atlus military is has made progress in harnessing Aura and transferring it into other things. Maybe the biggest problem they have is that they haven't found an Aura strong enough to hold the strain or found a person with enough Aura to survive the test. What if Ironwood and the Atlus Council learn about Jaunes Aura, how much he has and what he can do with it? Finding someone who can make another person more powerful by transferring your Aura to them sounds like something Atlus would want to test.
#33711671 - 9 months ago
I see what you're saying. The confusion was just that you kept going on about V5 being mostly done by the time it aired which felt like you thought we thought they were editing V5 based on immediate response to it.
Disagree about the voids, but not worth arguing about.
Kind of sounds a bit like what an editor does, at least part of what editors do. I see what you mean though, more like a proofreader than a proper editor. Do you think though that having an editor might help Rwby?
Also, please don't capitalize the no like that.
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33711678 - 9 months ago
I will capitalize as I please because its me making a point which you are still missing.
Its not a proofreader either.
Its honestly I dont think there is a title or word for it but its another point of view. Its someone who is at the same level as the audience coming in reading the script and then going okay here why this? Why is this talked about and why arent you talking about this.
Its an outside world view.
Editor and Proofreader are people that do multiple back and forths which isnt what I am talking about.
I am talking about someone who is coming in knowing no more then the audience and reacting and talking based on that level of knowledge.
And they DO have an editor in fact several
Series Editorial Department
Cole Gallian ... assistant editor / commentaries edited by (24 episodes, 2014-2016)
Stan Lewis ... assistant editor (12 episodes, 2015-2016)
Robert Reynolds ... colorist (12 episodes, 2015-2016)
Gray G. Haddock ... colorist (1 episode, 2014)
I dont think the Cast page is fully updated since there is only a handful of non-VAs on 2017 to 2018
Since there is 60 2018s and of those 50 are either VAs or the basic web page stuff
So they do have editors
#33711701 - 9 months ago
Alright. It just comes across as a bit aggressive and shouty. I find italics serve better if you want to emphasize words.
So you're thinking of something like alpha or beta readers for books maybe? In any case, I get what you're saying.
Good point about editors. Credits list Connor Pickens, Stan Lewis, and Richard Norman as editors for V5. I wonder how much impact they had because truth be told, this does not feel like a script which was edited much.