Ok, this is my personal opinion, I seem to be in a very small minority but whatever.
I think that the Wii is a great system. It has opened up the video game world for many new gamers. It's easy to learn to use, and usually quite fun. Here's my problem. It seems to me like all the Wii games are geared toward the casual gamer, rather than the hardcore gamer. There just aren't that many games that are as challenging as I would like. Another thing about Nintendo, is that they seem to have forgotten their main franchises. I think this is the first E3 to go by without hearing about a new Zelda/Mario/Metroid game. Twilight Princess was a great game, but it's story was lame IMO. Super Mario Galaxy is fun for a while, but not fun enough to play again and again (which is something that Nintendo has always excelled at, replay value).
Mainly, I make this thread not to rant, because i could do that in a journal, but to hear what everyone else thinks.
Has nintendo abandoned the hardcore gamer for the much larger potential that casual gamers present?
EDIT: As this is pretty damned old by now, most of the points i made are invalid. (please stop defending nintendo's greatness about things that weren't the case 3 years ago!!!)
What Nintendo games have been hardcore in the past? Its not that they're forgetting them... its that they never really knew them, you know? The only game that people can actually go hard core into on any nintendo system was Super Smash Brothers, and that's just because its an awesome fighter...
And i guess what is hardcore is a good question here... I usually think of the Hardcore game themes to be RTS, FPS, and Fighters. Nintendo had a great fighter, but it has never really had any great RTS and FPS. With the new controller system i really could only see FPS in the future, as RTS has never been great on consoles.
to #3, games aren't hardcore, gamers are hardcore. The hardcore gamer is someone who plays games for the challenge they present. And to #4, there only business comes from that audience because that's the type of games they have.
I think Nintendo knew they wouldn't be able to compete with the 360 or PS3 in the current generation of consoles. It's just not as powerful in terms of hardware and therefore cannot deliver the same experience as the other two (in theory at least).
I think that yes Nintendo is trying to attract a much bigger audience by picking up more casual gamers, and honestly their strategy is working because in the vast majority of the nation it's still damned hard to find one sitting on a shelf in the stores.
I don't think they're completely abandoning the hardcore gamer. Sure they might hot have the vast library of games that the other systems have that might appeal to such a gamer, but they still have quite a few really great games.
I've always been a PC-only gamer. I consider myself to be a hardcore gamer. I got the Wii for a different experience than what my PC (or a 360/PS3) can deliver. Now I have the best of both worlds. I think Nintendo has hit their target dead on and it's been a brilliant strategy thus far for them.
wackerpacker, I would have to say that the Wii is geared to the casual gamer, I've hardly heard of any good games that have been released exclusively for the Wii, and when you look at the list of games in a store it's all sorts of crap that mainly involves just mini games centered around the use of the Wiimote.The hardcore Nintendo fan is seems more or less an after thought.
Look, if you want 'hardcore' Wii games well your out of luck because basically, Nintendo said "People don't like playing games, they like toys" so their making Wii toys. I think I'm a 'people' and I like games so Fuck you Nintendo
Yeah, I would like to know where that came from as well.
In my opinion, the Wii system is misunderstood by third-party developers, and THAT`s why we have no games geared for hardcore gamers. The Wii`s biggest asset is the (arguably) intuitive motion-controls. Now, what annoys me is that the only people who have seemed to get these controls to actually be fun to use is Nintendo themselves with games like Wii Sports, Twilight Princess, hell even Metroid Prime: Corruption was a hell of a lot of fun.
But all of these third party developers look at the Wii and go `Hey, let`s make a half-assed game, and make it so you can wave the Wii remote randomly in the air and then people will like it.
It wouldn`t be so bad if different companies actually tried, but they all do the exact same thing. Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 was a (in my opinion) God-aweful first person shooter. WWE Raw vs Smackdown (or Smackdown vs RAW) I can`t remember... was also just waving around the controler.
Now I just recently purchased the Wii version of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed. And while it is creepily satisfying to just sit down and toss objects (and people) across rooms, and at other people (it IS really fun... seriously... lol) it is still just the same waving-heavy gameplay that all of these third party developers are making.
I mean, I can deal with the somewhat crappier graphics, but at least compensate with amazing gameplay.
The reason (again, in my opinion) why the Wii is becoming "lame" is nothing to do with Nintendo, but to do with the third party devs who just don't want to put the effort into it for the Wii. They'd rather make games for the 360 and the PS3 which have amazing graphics, and usually better gameplay.
I mean, hell, the Nintendo-kiddy games (Wii Sports, and all of those) are some of the most fun games that I have played on the Wii, and the ones that I find I am still playing. But games like TFU, and Iron Man, which are pretty decent on other systems, I just can't see myself playing through more than once.
I really adore the Wii, 'cause I think at heart I am a casual gamer. The Wii was the cheapest and considering my younger sister had claimed the right to purchasing a PS3 first (and did), and my youngest sister is entirely a 360 girl, I knew which one I was going for (Super Smash Brothers Brawl was a big factor too).
My boyfriend really loved Star Wars: The Force Unleashed because of the Wii's unique motion-controls. I enjoyed playing Okami because I could wave the silly Wii-mote around like a paint brush (though I will say those controls weren't quite as precise as they could be).
Yeah, yeah, i don't have very many games for the system, but then again, I don't have a lot of time to play them, or a lot of money, so I am VERY choosy. I just get perturbed when people go off on the Wii. It may not be a power-house like the other two systems, but it's FUN. It's true, the third party developers need to give a little more attention its way, but I'll take what I have right now and be happy with it. Nintendo pretty much has me roped in as a consumer whore anyway with the DS, so I'm stuck. XD
it's not that i hate the Wii, I was just expecting more. I remember being promised precise controls, a sword simulator game that actually is accurate to the movements you make. Now they're releasing a device, that we have to pay for, to make the controls as accurate as they should have been? That's what annoys me.
In reply to wackerpacker, #1: Thats what Nintendo did appeal to the casual gamer. They made a console that "everyone" could play. Even your grandparents could play. But I understand your frustration its not that hard to have that great appeal and at the same time have the game for those hardcore players. You can do both its not impossible.
Making the consumer buy an additional product to make the first product more enjoyable? That's practically obligatory for most companies to do now. Frustration is entirely understandable, but people buy it and will keep buying things, so... whatever. Nintendo was already behind Microsoft and Sony with the consoles, so they needed to get something out. I'm just happy that my Wii is more stable than my sisters 360 and PS3. And when I get that new controller that will be coming out, I'll still have spent less money than if I chose another console.
Though, yeah, there needs to be more games for the darn thing.
Dude wasn't quoting anything, he was saying that Nintendo basically said that. There are two categories of games for the Wii: the classics and lame toy things. The quality games are the Nintendo ones, and the others are just there to fill it out. However, I really rarely buy new games, and I was quite prepared to get it for just zelda, metroid, and ssbb. Of these, ssbb is actually kind of hard if you're going for insane records or trying to beat boss battles, zelda can be a challenge for a seven year old or else someone like me who can't remember where he's already checked for those damn bugs, and metroid was insanely easy on easy, and had several parts that were insanely difficult on hyper. I spent ages just fighting the first seed boss.
Just about all games on the wii are for little kids, they need to stop the quantity and start the quality, like i went to walmart and found some of the dumbest games for the wii that i have never even heard of before
There's a good quantity of games for kids but there's quite a few that aren't. There's some great games that I find to be kinda challenging. Granted most of those are Mario based games, but let's face it......Nintendo has always been about Mario/Zelda based games for the most part. I wouldn't want the Wii to produce games that are too similar to what the 360/PS3 have. The Wii delivers a different experience and I think that's a good thing. Why have 2 or 3 consoles that have the same games? It just doesn't make for a good strategy.
I agree. Wii in general is crap, at least from a "hardcore" perspective. Shit online support, no achievements, weak back-catalouge, a current one that is mostly movie tie-ins and 360 ports with shit graphics, gimmicky controls...
there are 5 games on Wii worth owning
Mario Galaxy Zack and Wiki: Quest for Barbaroses Treasure The Force Unleashed (if you can't get the other versions) Twilight Princess Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
Thats all I can think of that offers any challenge or depth beyond the half-Saturday morning cartoon shittyness that plagues the Wii. Nintendo needs to step up its fucking game, get some real online play,
And for once in their overblown lives... MAKE A NEW FRANCHISE
We need more than Zelda Mario Metroid DK. Pikimin was a start, keep going. Maybe an RTS suited for the control scheme. So many options, and Nintendo can't seem to grasp the idea that simple games doesn't always mean fun games.
I agree. Nintendo is amazing and has always had incredible potential, but the increase in simplicity has been it's downfall. I've been a Nintendo person all my life, but I really can't connect with them anymore.
The main thing that bothers me is how their star franchises can hardly produce solid games anymore. They're always some corny variant. When was the last time we saw a "Kirby" game that didn't have a funky title and some strange gimmick in its controls? I want a solid Kirby adventure. (Just as an example)
It's been too long since I've seen a Metroid game that didn't have the word PRIME after it. There must be about five or six of those. Prime for Gamecube was an amazing touch to the franchise because it was the first time it was made into an FPS, but Prime: Hunters(DS) took it all a bit too far. And Prime: Pinball(GBA)? Ran out of titles I think hmm?? There has to be some new material soon or Samus' legend will die.
The drive for anime based titles has increased like crazy, and quite frankly, I don't even know what any of them are!! There's too many unknown, unheard of titles that are produced by third party producers that it turns of hardcore Nintendo fans away towards other venues. No doubt, some of those games are probably quite fun! But the style of game that I see in anime games is so cliche now-a-days. and is very unoriginal.
As for the Wii..
An incredible system. But was thrown in a bit of the wrong direction for classic gamers. I'm going to be honest, the Wii is fun at parties and whatnot but I want something that can carry on the Nintendo legacy on a traditional sense. I don't hate the Wii-mote. It's really neat and when I first tried it, I was in awe of how cool it was, but what about the solidity of a standard controller? Sure you can use the GC controller, but New system, New controller ya think? It reassures my gameplay feeling in games like Zelda. (Why I bought Twilight Princess for Gamecube)
These are the reasons why I went out and bought an Xbox 360 this summer and not a Wii. I still admire Nintendo's legacy and will always go back to play the old stuff. I just don't agree with the direction that they're going in.
Sorry for the rant. This topic hit a tender spot in my gaming heart, if you will.