At the conclusion of Reconstruction - Episode 19, Caboose is seen ready to upload the AI Fragment Epsilon into the robotic body formerly used by Tex.
However, what is about to be uploaded? Theories abound and range from Church/Alpha having uploaded a copy of itself into the data bank that is holding Epsilon to a copy of Tex.
We know from dialog that the Epsilon AI has the memories of torture committed against Church/Alpha but Director Church, et. al. We know that security codes of Project Freelancer that allowed Agent Washington to activate the Failsafe EMP were also inside. This last data bit suggests that Director Church had his mind copied after Project Freelancer was up and running but possibly before the recruited Freelancers had arrived.
However, Agent Washington was not certain about Tex so, it is possible that there were no memories of Agent Tex inside Epsilon. Further, a good deal of the memories held by Church/Alpha remained with Church/Alpha and served as his reason to believe he was a ghost and not an AI.
The Director commented that someone extremely dear to him was lost very early in his life. The Director's mind has always plagued him with the question, if the choice had been placed in his hands, could he have saved her. The memory of her had haunted him his entire life. The Director concluded that had he been given the chance, he would have made those sacrifices himself.
I believe that Epsilon will be this woman known to the Director in his youth (Childhood to early adulthood) intermixed with and hampered by the torture memories.
But, this thread is to discuss the nature of Epsilon and what role the character may have within the RvB drama to unfold. You know may viewpoint, feel free to present yours.
From what I have gathered from previous episodes. Epsilon is sorry about things. I get this from the child like voice that speaks to Wash when we learn that his AI is intact. That would suggest that the AI did have a mournfull attitude, or at least was remorseful for it's actions. Just as the other Ai's where able to begin to make a single mind, growing from the fragmentation, so will Epsilon in my opinion.
The memory issue is rather puzzleing. It had the codes anf full knowledge of the AI fragmenting, yet didn't know who Tex was and wy she was so speacil. My thought on that is that the Smart AI was not truly granted to Freelancer, but that a tech team came down and copied the good Doctors mind to form one. The was mearly overlooked my the Chairman as the creation of the Smart AI was not the issue. The as Freelancers where recruited and Red vs Blue was set up, along came Allison. The fire in her heart and the skill she had interested the Dorector and caused him to take speacil notice of her. The fact that Alpha/Church was also attacted to her added full to the fire. Then Omega always found a way back to her. Something about her caught not only Dr Church's eye, but that of mind's fragments as well.
As to what Caboose was doing with it.................... I can't say I don't agree that this could be a new charator emerging and they will find another way to bring back Alpha/Chuch, but who knows.
Some of the memory fragments inside Epsilon can be safely assumed to be of the aging Director Church along with other fragments. So, there could be an older Church inside Epsilon. However, that Church would pattern closer to the Director then to Church of BGC or Church/Alpha.
Regarding the apology of the Fragments towards Washington, I'm still not certain as to what the Fragments are apologizing for nor am I certain that the Fragment making the apology was actually Epsilon.
The strong references made to this woman who died early in the Director's life take on significance both towards the past and the future. The Director and Church/Alpha were both attracted to Tex but, Tex could not have been alive when the Director was in his early adulthood or childhood. With that in mind, Tex must have resembled this woman to a great extent. As far as Omega, that Fragment was the Rage of the Church/Alpha and always found a way back to Tex as though to protect her by aiding her. It was only when survival was at stake did Omega flee.
What other AI would have a reason to even speak to Wash, much less apologize? While I do think that is was the intention that the Ai's would switch host, I don't think this was a process that was done as offen as it should have been. Up until the comment by Wash that Omega continued to find hsi way back to Tex, I had no reason to think the AI switched host. If it is true that one Freelancer would rotate AI, it is news to me.
I don't think the fact that Omega ALWAYS found his way back to Tex should be dismissed just yet. Clues about Tex in Reconstruction have been few and far between, but that is debate for another thread.
I have no clue but, all the AIs come from a single source and thus might share the hints, memories and plans of the Director. They might have felt a sort of universal guilt for the crimes of the Director as they were not only a part of the process but also would have known what the Director intended in the first place. Church/Alpha was the means by which all of the abuse and damage done to all of the Freelancers was accomplished. If the Church/Alpha had not broken, the Freelancer Project would have been an immediate failure. As the Fragment's were parts of Church/Alpha, they might have felt a portion of the blame was on their algorithmic shoulders, so to speak.
Throwing in my two cents, I think the scenes in 17 where Church was force-fed Epsilon's memories in flashes was an updating progress, like when you plug your iPod into the computer and it automatically synchronises files between the Pod and the hard-drive. If you want another analogy, it would be as if Church 'saved his game' in the storage centre and will be ressurected when epsilon uploads PLUS a whole heap of pre-torture memories. The uncovering and dealings with theses memories provide a plot-twist while making sure that one of RvB's key characters isn't simply dumped from the series.
At least, I hope thats what happens, I fucking HATE series where main characters are killed. It's a personal thing :P
I don't think epsilon is going to be a new character cause it is really a fragmented copy of Church so epsilon is in a way Church. This is actually things they said in the series, they said epsilon is a copy of Church which logically thinking that means it is Church so I think epsilon is just going to be used as the new Church.
We know that Epsilon was more than just memories. Upon fragmentation, Project Freelancer would have tried to turn it into a mililtary AI with capabilities similar to those demonstrated by Cortana - specifically electronic intrusion and subversion. I find it much more likely that Epsilon acquired those codes from The Director's personal computer system as a preparation to an attempt to either 'rescue' or avenge Alpha.
I have always preferred the theory that what really happened with Epsilon was that it persuaded Wash to try to break in to steal Alpha away from PF. The story about Epsilon going berserk and destroying itself in Wash's head was obviously official disinformation - from Chapter 15 it is clear that Wash always knew it was a lie. Instead, it was this incident that persuaded The Director that the iFrags' monomania about Alpha was getting too dangerous and they needed to be examined and 'stabilised' (i.e. made to forget about Alpha) before the implantation experiments could resume.
I would add that The Director's surprise about Washinton's motives suggests that no one apart from Wash knew what Epsilon was originally. This exposes more of the championship-level incompetence that seems to be an identifying mark of Project Freelancer. No one actually bothered to check Epsilon after it was put in storage to see exactly how it persuaded Wash to go rogue. I'm not sure why that is. I have several suppositions, but certainly nothing with enough evidence to call a 'theory'. My best guess is that The Director had a 'Plan B' that was underway after the Epsilon SNAFU and he saw no reason to proceed with a second try at Plan A at that time.
What was Plan B? I'm fairly sure that it has something to do with all the Freelancers who escaped the removal of their AIs. It might possibly have something to do with Maine and the genesis of The Meta, which has more and more has the feeling of an officially-sanctioned but highly-unofficial black op.
On to the man topic of this thread, I have discussed on other threads that it is likely that the iFrags would have all acquired their own distinct personalities during their time seperated from the main Alpha system. It is a very real possibility that Epsilon may appear in the upcoming new extended series of RvB as a recurring character. Either he will try to present himself as 'Church'. Although, lacking Gamma's skill at deceit, I would not expect such a deception to last long. No matter how perfect its memories of Church are, it would not be able to perfectly imitate his personality. Alternately, if Epsilon is carrying a backup of Church, he may get uploaded into Tex's old LOPEZ combat chassis with the 'boss' and Church may find himself with an unwanted 'passenger'.
Um.. everyone knows about the animated series right? Church is in that so one can assume that Church did indeed somehow get transferred to Epsilon or survived the EMP. Unless the animates series is an AU.
hypothetically speaking, if epsilon could show memories of things that had happened in recent memory, like the delta experiences, which epsilon was not there for, so it would appear that it has the ability to draw on recent memories of ppl it has come in contact with. so if this theory is true, than it would have a stored copy of all of Alpha/Chuch's memories, and in a way, a carbon copy of church
We know that Epsilon was more than just memories. Upon fragmentation, Project Freelancer would have tried to turn it into a mililtary AI with capabilities similar to those demonstrated by Cortana - specifically electronic intrusion and subversion. I find it much more likely that Epsilon acquired those codes from The Director's personal computer system as a preparation to an attempt to either 'rescue' or avenge Alpha.
Nice one. I hadn't thought of that. Although the implication of Epsilon being "memory" was that it had the Director's memories. OTOH, Epsilon obviously didn't know the Director's name or that the Alpha was based on the Director.
At a guess, I'd say that Epsilon was the Alpha's extraneous memories, the one's not needed to maintain the core identity. This is why the Alpha acts and behaves as if he were the right age to be a raw recruit instead of an old man.
I have always preferred the theory that what really happened with Epsilon was that it persuaded Wash to try to break in to steal Alpha away from PF. The story about Epsilon going berserk and destroying itself in Wash's head was obviously official disinformation - from Chapter 15 it is clear that Wash always knew it was a lie. Instead, it was this incident that persuaded The Director that the iFrags' monomania about Alpha was getting too dangerous and they needed to be examined and 'stabilised' (i.e. made to forget about Alpha) before the implantation experiments could resume.
I would add that The Director's surprise about Washinton's motives suggests that no one apart from Wash knew what Epsilon was originally. This exposes more of the championship-level incompetence that seems to be an identifying mark of Project Freelancer. No one actually bothered to check Epsilon after it was put in storage to see exactly how it persuaded Wash to go rogue. I'm not sure why that is. I have several suppositions, but certainly nothing with enough evidence to call a 'theory'. My best guess is that The Director had a 'Plan B' that was underway after the Epsilon SNAFU and he saw no reason to proceed with a second try at Plan A at that time.
I think it's obvious that short of implanting the AI in someone, there is no way to really examine the contents of an AI. External observers have to look at the AI's behavior and basically guess what part of the Alpha any given fragment is. For some like Omega, it looks pretty obvious. For an AI like Epsilon, not so much. And who do you think is going to volunteer to share his mind with a mad AI?
What was Plan B? I'm fairly sure that it has something to do with all the Freelancers who escaped the removal of their AIs. It might possibly have something to do with Maine and the genesis of The Meta, which has more and more has the feeling of an officially-sanctioned but highly-unofficial black op.
There was a Plan B? A Plan B would indicate something approaching competence which you noted was something lacking in Project Freelancer.
On to the man topic of this thread, I have discussed on other threads that it is likely that the iFrags would have all acquired their own distinct personalities during their time seperated from the main Alpha system. It is a very real possibility that Epsilon may appear in the upcoming new extended series of RvB as a recurring character. Either he will try to present himself as 'Church'. Although, lacking Gamma's skill at deceit, I would not expect such a deception to last long. No matter how perfect its memories of Church are, it would not be able to perfectly imitate his personality. Alternately, if Epsilon is carrying a backup of Church, he may get uploaded into Tex's old LOPEZ combat chassis with the 'boss' and Church may find himself with an unwanted 'passenger'.
I think Epsilon is carrying or became the backup of Alpha Church.
I don't think epsilon is going to be a new character cause it is really a fragmented copy of Church so epsilon is in a way Church. This is actually things they said in the series, they said epsilon is a copy of Church which logically thinking that means it is Church so I think epsilon is just going to be used as the new Church.
My favorite theory in a nutshell.
Of course, in Halo canon, you can't copy AIs like this, hence why the Director went the torture route to create new AIs. Still, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't have future breakthroughs. In fact, if Epsilon can make exact copies of any AIs, then he's become very VERY valuable... if anyone ever realizes that he can do this.
Nice one. I hadn't thought of that. Although the implication of Epsilon being "memory" was that it had the Director's memories. OTOH, Epsilon obviously didn't know the Director's name or that the Alpha was based on the Director.
At a guess, I'd say that Epsilon was the Alpha's extraneous memories, the one's not needed to maintain the core identity. This is why the Alpha acts and behaves as if he were the right age to be a raw recruit instead of an old man.
I think that Epsilon was all Alpha's memories at the time of fragmentation, a sort of 'Memory Dump', really.
However, Alpha wouldn't have had all of The Director's memories anyway - it would have only had 'residual' memories from the mind template. Evidently, this included memories of Dr. Church's relationship with Allison. I find it difficult to believe that it would include any detailed memories of his work and such minuate as security passwords and codes.
I have always preferred the theory that what really happened with Epsilon was that it persuaded Wash to try to break in to steal Alpha away from PF. The story about Epsilon going berserk and destroying itself in Wash's head was obviously official disinformation - from Chapter 15 it is clear that Wash always knew it was a lie.
Recovery One disagrees with you. Unless you mean Wash was lying here. Which I suppose is possible. He could have made it up to keep them from implanting him again, but then why make up a lie to have it removed in the first place? All he had to do was keep his mouth shut about what he knew..
Voice: Agent Washington? Agent Washington? Washington: Sorry, what were you saying? Voice: Were you thinking about Epsilon again, Agent Washington? Washington: No. Voice: What happened with Epsilon was not your fault, Agent Washington. Washington: I didn't think it was. Voice: We have safeguards for the unstable emotional patterns of an artificial intelligence. Sometimes these algorithms fail. Washington: Oh. So then it's your fault. Voice: We prefer to think of it as noone's fault. Washington: Really. Voice: Just a possible, but rare, unfortunate outcome. Washington: How convenient. Voice: Are you having new feelings about the incident? Washington: No. Just the same old feelings. You know, that I had another person in my head, and I got to experience first-hand as their mind unraveled while mixed with my own. That I still have trouble distinguishing between its disintegrating thoughts and mine. You know, the usual.
Granted, but this doesn't seem to match with Wash's knowledge in Reconstruction that Epsilon was still extant. It is possible that The Counsellor tried to spin Wash was a line and Wash was canny enough to appear to buy it whilst keeping the truth to himself. It appears that Wash was actually very good at deception, when he needed to be.
Speaking from a logical point of view, I'm going with the theory that Epsilon holds a sort of back-up copy of Church, because I highly doubt Rooster Teeth would kill off one of the most popular characters in the series and not bring him back somehow. That would be the ultimate jumping-the-shark for me and for a lot of the fan base most likely. The popularity of the series would most likely sharply decline if he didn't come back.
I agree that he Alpha would not have all the memories of the Director. Chances are that once they converted the Director's mind into a computer program, they deleted certain memories so it would function as an independent being and not a copy of the Director.
For some reason, I think that Wash had full intentions of bringing down the Director and Project Freelancer from the moment Epsilon was placed inside his A.I. slot. I think his thinking was, keep for friends close and you enemies closer. So working as a recovery agent for the Director let him keep tabs on the Project. When he was given the mission of stopping the Meta, he saw his chance to do it. Making sure that Epsilon made it out of there before the E.M.P., in my mind, proves that theory.
I'm not sure that this possibility scans. If anything, it is Delta who seems to believe the 'official' story about Wash and Epsilon (at least at the time he discusses it with Church).
Frankly, the whole ending of Reconstruction made the 'memory is a key' clue a bit of a red herring to me. The only value it seems to be in introducing Epsilon as an all-purpose deus ex machina to explain Wash knowing stuff. Memory is the key to what? Stopping The Meta? Only tangenitally so. Stopping Project Freelancer? I'm not sure why Delta would want this. Saving Alpha? Possibly, but it requires Delta to go beyond logic to a supernatural level of foresight. I find it difficult to believe that it could have calculated all the interactions and decisions of so many individuals to predict that outcome so perfectly.
I'll expand on my point - I had assumed that memory (Epsilon) would be the key to Alpha - that putting Church and Epsilon together would re-create a form of Alpha that would help in defeating The Meta and also The Director's machinations. Instead, none of that happened and I can't see anything that Wash did in his final scheme that automatically required Epsilon, at least not for any objective that Delta would have been interested in facilitating.
Of course, Delta claimed that he had to be 'objective'. Maybe he was helping Wash to fulfill his agenda because that was his designed function. Whether or not he approved of those goals was... irrelevant
I still think the 'memory is the key' is the connection to 'unlocking the Alpha'.
In a sense, it's very much the truth. The Alpha needed to 'remember' what it was in order to function as the Alpha. For all we know, (and despite his final claim) perhaps Church really did accept that at the end which allowed him to do what he needed to do with/in the Meta at the end - to give Wash the time he needed (using the time-sync ability).
I feel the 'memory is the key' actually did play out rather well in the context of the show.
Oddly, I think one of the things that bothers me (and I just realized this) is that in most stories, the 'key' is clear!
"Use the force" or "Destroy the One Ring" and that's it, that's the goal. Everyone knows it, etc.
In this case... the exact nature of how to resolve everything wasn't clear, it wasn't even confined to one single thing, but a series of things. It wasn't enough to have Church there, Church needed to be able to function as the Alpha. It wasn't enough to just have Epsilon without Church. It wouldn't have been enough to just shove Epsilon in Church's head because he might have gone crazy himself.
In that sense, it's a much more dynamic climax than many 'epic novels' offer!
I had assumed that memory (Epsilon) would be the key to Alpha - that putting Church and Epsilon together would re-create a form of Alpha that would help in defeating The Meta and also The Director's machinations.
I thought the same way until the end of Episode 18. I think Epsilon was a fall safe measure, to bring down the Director in case Wash was killed in the process.
I think that instead of it's own character, Epsilon will be more like a plot device to bring back Church, if Caboose's final scene in Chapter 19 is any evidence.
agreed, what else would Caboose be doing with the body. Epsilon can't bring back Tex because it is not Tex. Epsilon is Church so the only reason Caboose would be standing there next to a empty body is so he can upload epsilon into the body which means Church is back. There is no other thing that can really happen. Tex reviving using something that is a part of Church makes no sense and Epsilon can't really be a new Character sense it is Church. The most epsilon could really be is a new Church.
I agree with you 100%. Can you imagine the psych bill Church will have, with having all those memories of the torture at the beginning of Project Freelancer. I'm sure it will be astronomically huge.
Remember we've been told several time that the AI can retain parts of their host (like Gamma with Wyoming's knock knock jokes).. that the two don't always de-integrate cleanly.
That means when they pulled Epsilon out of Wash's head, while Wash clearly retained many of Ep's memories, doubtless Epsilon itself also retained parts of Wash.
We only have Wash's word to go on that that was really Epsilon...
We know that Church wasn't "locally" hosted, as he never died with his body. Instead, ALL of the AI's were beamed out from "Freelancer City."
This means that somewhere out there, there is a remote host for Alpha. I believe that Alpha is also the host for Tex, as well, so perhaps Wash merely gave them the "server" that hosted the Alpha.
Memory was the key. An encryption key was necessary to unlock the Failsafe EMP. The memory, as retained by Epsilon and provided to Washington, was the source of that key - which was the memory of the Director himself.
It will be very interesting to see what element Epsilon pulled out of Washington when it ejected. Empathy would be my guess.
If Epsilon has a back up copy of Church/Alpha as well as my pet theory, (the woman that haunted the Director) it might be a good thing that there are some un-used robotic bodies over at Blood Gulch.
