This thread is designed to allow for an all encompassing tech discussion. All the stuff you want to post about, but can't because I tell you that you're off topic.
That being said, this is absolutely NOT a thread to ask for help in. If it turns into the Quick Technical Question Thread, I'm going to shut it down.
Microsoft and Google are always going to do whatever they can to maximize profits, especially Microsoft. They have such a hold on the market, that they're not going to be too worried about some bad press. If the fines aren't working, because they're still making money, then you need to jack up the fines.
As for the option to install a web browser thing, I thought I had heard that Microsoft was going to release Windows 7 without any web browser in the UK.
MS is not aloud to bundle IE with Windows 7 in EU at all, that is the reason why Firefox and other browser makers are now shipping out disks for install (since you cannot go download what you want haha) and Microsoft is even SELLING IE alongside Windows 7.
Not sure on a selection when buying. I think if you buy from a reseller you can get the option to pick a browser disk, but if you get it from MS, im sure the only option is IE.
Honestly, I think this is a good move, but for some it wont be.
As for the option to install a web browser thing, I thought I had heard that Microsoft was going to release Windows 7 without any web browser in the UK.
They had threatened to do that as a solution to the EU complaint, but are no longer planning on doing so.
MS is not aloud to bundle IE with Windows 7 in EU at all, that is the reason why Firefox and other browser makers are now shipping out disks for install (since you cannot go download what you want haha) and Microsoft is even SELLING IE alongside Windows 7.
Thats what I was trying to find. And now I cannot seem to find it. I guess I spoke too soon, but I read about it on gizmodo maybe when the spill first happened, and saw disks from Mozilla (in the store) for EU Firefox.
Well I know that, but this was a link specifically for that, from the blog post, saying that browser makers were shipping out disks either with the OS or stand alone (cannot remember that part).
I'm sure removing them isn't completely harmless to the system (it does leave some dead shortcuts behind when you try to open the "Games" folder, and removing the media stuff probably takes out some of the built-in codecs).
I just find it stupid they're forbidding microsoft to include IE and wmp. Then they should also pull the same crap on Apple and on even mobile phone manufacturers.
as a citizen of an EU nation I'm quite pissed off at such a blatant waste of time and (taxpayer) resources. Besides, plenty of OEMs sell their systems with Firefox preinstalled along with other freewares, people just need to get off their asses. Those who buy a retail version usually are capable of installing it themselves and thus very likely seasoned computer users who know of alternative browsers.
To be honest I think not bundling IE and WMP with Windows 7 is a stupid idea, mainly because if you don't have IE what are you going to download alternative browsers such as Firefox with? If my version of Windows 7 comes with IE I will be installing Firefox anyway, but I will leave IE on just in case it is needed (which IMO it will be)
Is it true that Windows 7 without IE is hamstrung in many ways as a result of IE not being present?
They're gonna give some sort of selection screen, but who determines what comes on that screen?
IMO it's just a typical display of EU bureauidiocracy and not seeing the weaselish behaviour of outsiders who can't mind their own business. The guys of Opera were onto that lawsuit like hyenas, as if they were hoping to get Opera included in Windows instead of IE. While they should have kept their noses out of it. Opera has lost my respect by hanging around that suit like some hungry hyena, I'm never ever gonna use their browser again, not even for testing purposes.
And the EU doesn't seem to realize the problems not including IE will give to 3rd party software. Steam uses IE to allow users to browse its marketplace... Valve should contest that bs decision, claiming it cuts their income from the EU market.
Betting that European antitrust regulators will okay its proposal for a "ballot screen" and facing opposition from computer makers and corporate customers, Microsoft late Friday abandoned plans to ship Windows 7 without Internet Explorer (IE).
The idea is that on install you are asked which browser(s; not sure if you can install multiple ones from the ballot screen or not) you want to include in the installation. It looks like they are including the guys of IE in there anyway, but are hoping that pointing people at the other browsers gets around the anti-trust issues.
Will this affect Apple at all? They do the same thing, plus they push Safari on you if you download iTunes. I've seen countless windows computers with Safari on them, and every time I ask the person if they use it, they generally don't even know what it is or that it's there.
Apple was slammed for doing that, they've since toned it down a little. It still shows up on their Apple Updater program, but it isn't nearly as bad as it was.
Lets be honest. You can probably hit Apple with some of the same charges, but their doing it doesn't have the same practical effect as Microsoft with their stranglehold on the market. To add to that, the charges themselves are in flux constantly. I doubt that they will want to level them against Apple until they actually have things pinned down a bit better and work out exactly what is a violation and what isn't (plus what is being violated).
The whole thing is essentially a series of negotiations between the EU and Microsoft balancing a few factors. Microsoft will want EU governments to buy their software, so they have to get the EU to decide on a set of standards that allow their closed source and 'open' document formats (that are designed only for MS Office and ignore accepted standards for Microsoft house preferences) against the currently stated beliefs and goals of the organisation. One of the things that the EU wants to avoid is Microsoft locking them into a single company into the future. Microsofts whole business plan is centred around locking people into MS products. Their goal is to compromise just enough to get accepted while still somewhat locking people into a pseudo-monopoly (eg, you can get out but you can't take your data with you). It is very easy for governments and businesses to get caught in that trap (see IE6 usage in modern business), so fighting Microsoft hard here is important.
The thing that really gets me is that Safari is auto selected to install on the Apple Updater program. That's how the majority of people end up with it on their system. Granted, they should be smart enough to look at what they're installing, but still.
A brilliant marketing strategy Microsoft has put into place is the free software for students thing. You get students locked into their software at an early stage, so as they develop that's what they get used to using and end up sticking with when they get into the real world.
Actually the latest version of firefox did that to me as well. Granted, I had to download and install it, and it was my intent anyway, but it didn't ask if I wanted it to be the default browser.
I think IE8 and IE7 still ask when they open for the first time, but I honestly don't use IE anymore except for work. Even then, Firefox works with about 70% of the time with the same sites. Thankfully, Exchange 2010 is going to have full support for pretty much all browsers. No more gimped OWA.
IE does ask you. On any of the web browsers, they make it pretty difficult to stop it from being the default, although generally you just have your browser of choice make itself the default, since that's easy to find.
A brilliant marketing strategy Microsoft has put into place is the free software for students thing. You get students locked into their software at an early stage, so as they develop that's what they get used to using and end up sticking with when they get into the real world.
my Dreamspark & MSDNAA memberships living proof here!!! Now seriously, it's pretty awesome they are distributing the express editions for nonprofit and the full version on dreamspark for educational nonprofit use. it allows students to work at home or on their laptop with the software used in the schools.
And it's more of a Gillette strategy: get the people used to something until they find it hard to live without it, then put a price on it.
Because many companies still use IE6, I don't even get to upgrade my home machine, because I need to be able to test in the browsers my clients are using. It's amusing how badly this site runs in IE6, by the way.
my Dreamspark & MSDNAA memberships 
