In light of the lengthy discussion over this video and this article, here's a thread to talk about ACORN. I understand the folks who released the Baltimore video either have released a similarly incriminating video using a similar set up on the DC office. DC sting
Support of prostitution. Support of tax fraud. Support of underage prostitution. Support of international sexual trafficking in under-aged illegal aliens used to also commit tax fraud in a bordello.
ACORN is a huge recipient of government dollars. They're in charge of the census. They are, apparently, also corrupt as hell. Why are we funding this kind of work, and more importantly, why are we allowing the government to use these people to administer the census?
It would be more than two from Baltimore. There will be two more (soon to be former) employees from DC.
Plus there where 11 ACORN workers charged with voter fraud in Florida, and I remember it happend around the election too.
That showed that there is alot of bad eggs.
But they are not going to be the ones administation the Census, but will help publicize the event. But there should be some investigations, so some misguided employees does not try to publicze the census at graveyards.
Here's the thing though, ACORN employs what, several thousand people? Get that many people together, and some of them are bound to be retards. For all we know, the people who made that video did their research, figured out who to target, and went in specifically to catch those two people, knowing they were there.
Basically, in any large organization, if you go looking for someone with a given corruption, eventually you'll find one. Or in some cases, like the folks who made up phony voter registrations in order to increase their paycheck, they find themselves out. The question remains, are such positions and policies those of ACORN, or just those of the people being found out?
That is true, I think I saw somethng saying they have 400,000 employes that is alot.
I did hear on Glen Beck raido show today that they did try three others ACORN offices and was turned away, so it wasn't the same for all the ACORN offices they went to.. But they did find two other people (at DC), who did the same thing as the two in Baltimore.
The major problem I have is they are getting federal money, and there should be some type of investigation to see how much corruption is in ACORN.
The major problem I have is they are getting federal money, and there should be some type of investigation to see how much corruption is in ACORN.
I entirely agree. For one, it will answer my question. For two, it's billions of dollars that need to end up in the hands of people who are competent. For three, balls.
Census Bureau spokesman Stephen Buckner said officials in the bureau, which is part of the Department of Commerce, had been concerned with news reports about ACORN for awhile and “had been monitoring them.”
Buckner said recent videotapes -- showing a young man and young woman pretending to be a pimp and prostitute, declaring themselves such and apparently able to secure the help of ACORN employees in Washington D.C., and Baltimore, in obtaining housing – was “the tipping point.”
It was “cumulative,” Buckner said, “but certainly the recent activity didn’t help.”
In a letter to ACORN President Maude Hurd, Census Bureau director Robert Groves wrote that, while “not decisive factors in this decision, recent events concerning several local offices of ACORN have added to the worsening negative perceptions of ACORN and its affiliation with our partnership efforts.”
Plus there where 11 ACORN workers charged with voter fraud in Florida, and I remember it happend around the election too.
The important thing they note in that article is that it was ACORN who reported the workers. It's important to remember how the system worked.
ACORN were running a voter registration program. They hired in 13,000 new workers primarily to target 1.3 million poorer or disadvantaged voters, who often are less informed about voter registration or who are less likely to be able to take the time to go register. The details I can find suggest that the job paid $8 an hour, but that the staff had to meet a quota each day to justify the wage. That
Obviously, this isn't the best way to do things. Often workers would fake registration cards to try to make their quota or bump up their pay a bit. This is why ACORN ran extra checks on all cards.
They required a telephone number on all registrations. These numbers were then called by ACORN staffers to confirm the registration. If they couldn't confirm then they flagged the card as a likely fraud.
They were required by law not to discard any registration cards (otherwise anyone could just throw all the Republican or Democratic cards in the bin as they come in) so they sent the flagged cards on to the government, along with the details of the worker who had filled it in. Anyone who was known to be committing such fraud was fired, and anyone who was confirmed to have committed such fraud by the government was prosecuted. I'm not sure if those 11 were the only ones where it ended up going through, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more.
This stuff cost ACORN quite a bit of money, running the extra checks, and the government may have had to run a few extra checks themselves and a few prosecutions, but the return was a hell of a lot of people registered to vote who otherwise would have been denied. Baby and bathwater situation.
In the case of the new video, I would rather wait and see what comes of the whole thing. I'd want to hear what defenses the employee's put forwards for themselves. But for now I just have to speculate wildly.
I'd have to guess that the employee's didn't know what to do in such a situation. I'd assume they would look to report the situation afterward, but when they were in the room with the people they wouldn't have been likely to take much action. Telling people who are obviously criminals that what they want to do is illegal and immoral isn't going to get you very far. Getting details and engaging with them gives you information you can pass on to those who can do things in the future.
Further, this seems to have been an extensive entrapment campaign, with at least seven offices targeted and two biting. I'd really like to know what the motivation behind this was. Have there been reports that ACORN does this sort of thing regularly, or did someone just want some ammo to use against them? It's a pretty creepy idea to come up with as a sting operation off the top of your head, so I'm hoping it was based on prior information, but I'd still like to see that.
That makes sense, the quota system could create fake voter registration, There has to be a way to get people registrated without having that quota system.
For the video, there had been some reports of bad stuff going on from O'Reilly and Beck, I could of sworn I seen another video about something ACORN did (one of those undercover video stuff), but can't remember what it about or can't find it.
No. They weren't. It's only right-wing fringe groups who think that everybody is Acorn and Acorn out to get them who think that Acorn is "integral" to the census process. Acorn is just their boogeyman they use to attach to everything sinister their paranoid brains come up with.
It's only right-wing fringe groups who think that everybody is Acorn and Acorn out to get them who think that Acorn is "integral" to the census process.
Huh... I guess "ACORN had previously been tapped to help with low level data gathering for the 2010 census." means something different to you than it does to me. Data gathering sounds pretty freaking integral, and given the track-record of ACORN the last two years, it certainly didn't fill me with a lot of confidence...
Then again, the Fed rarely does anything that fills me with confidence, so...
Huh... I guess "ACORN had previously been tapped to help with low level data gathering for the 2010 census." means something different to you than it does to me.
Which is a job that anybody could get. It's not "integral", they're low level employees and they're not even close to being "in charge" of it. It's simply absurd to say that, and anybody who believes it seriously has no credibility at all because they lack even the simplest understanding of facts.
Data gathering sounds pretty freaking integral, and given the track-record of ACORN the last two years, it certainly didn't fill me with a lot of confidence...
You mean when they submit every piece of voter registration they get to insure they don't accidentally discard somebody's legitimate voter registration? Yeah, super scary. I mean, they might collect and give information to the Census Bureau! Radical!
Great. Then let it be a job posted in local papers, instead of handed to a group that - regardless of any claims - works solely to get Democrats elected.
You seriously don't see why people might have some slight issue there?
How is Acorn blatantly political? Registering voters? Advocating for low-income familes? Child prostitution? Because we all know only one party loves child prostitution like nothing else.
Do you know why ACORN were involved with the census?
They have connections and staff who can get access to people who may otherwise not be in contact with government agencies. Their experience and access is invaluable to getting access to those people.
And when it comes to the census, this is a pretty sore point.
The undercount of the 2010 census was estimated at 3,355,585, most of that being minorities and the poor. This data is then used to divide up the electoral college and various funding purposes, disadvantaging minority heavy districts.
It's notable that the most strongly supported method of approving this (statistical extrapolation) was screamed down earlier this year. And now a major group who are highly experienced in promoting involvement by disadvantaged groups have been forced out...
It seems like this point might be worth bringing up. My expectation is that somebody will assume that because Acorn has ties to these people who might otherwise not be counted, somehow this is a shady issue. It doesn't seem that way to me, imagine the reverse of this in somebody like Michelle Bachman. She's already threatened to boycott the census, but presumably if there was a long established and trusted organization in her community that was participating in outreach to get people to fill out their census, she might be more willing to realize she's being paranoid and just fill out the forms as needed.
It seems like this point might be worth bringing up. My expectation is that somebody will assume that because Acorn has ties to these people who might otherwise not be counted, somehow this is a shady issue. It doesn't seem that way to me, imagine the reverse of this in somebody like Michelle Bachman. She's already threatened to boycott the census, but presumably if there was a long established and trusted organization in her community that was participating in outreach to get people to fill out their census, she might be more willing to realize she's being paranoid and just fill out the forms as needed.
The larger issue is people who shouldn't be counted.
Like who? Minorities? Because it already seems as if you have issues with them from your earlier fingerpointing. Sounds like some good ole fashioned bigotry to me. Mr. "I actually said negro to a black young woman on live television" Zombie Reagan.
Like who? Minorities? Because it already seems as if you have issues with them from your earlier fingerpointing. Sounds like some good ole fashioned bigotry to me. Mr. "I actually said negro to a black young woman on live television" Zombie Reagan.
ACORN are a group who share many goals with the Democratic party, but that is the limit of their involvement.
The group has multiple parts. The majority of their work is entirely detached from political parties. They then have a political group that advocates for candidates and policies according to their broader goals. They supported Obama in the last election because he shared most of their objectives. When Democrats work against their goals, they oppose them.
They aren't a democratic focused group. They are advocates for the poor and minorities.
You do understand that illegal immigrants are counted along with the rest of the population then subtracted out again for determining the number of voters. This actually tends to result in undercounts in populations with large numbers of illegal immigrants; they tend to subtract out too many. This tends to be compensated for in turn, but the debate isn't about counting illegal immigrants or not, it is about how to compensate for the errors introduced by subtracting them out.
The law mandates that illegal immigrants be counting. It stipulates all persons must be counted in the census, including non-citizens. It's been that way for hundreds of years.
