The proposal by the Cordoba Initiative to build an Islamic center near Ground Zero has drawn major media attention and engendered fierce debate. Right-wing political commentators, politicians, hard-line Christian ministers, bloggers and some families of 9/11 victims have charged that it is insensitive to 9/11 families, dishonors memories of the victims and will be a "monument to terrorism."
But here are the facts:The center is not at Ground Zero but two blocks away, and the Cordoba Initiative seeks to build a center, not a mosque. The center is not designed as a local mosque for a Muslim community but rather to serve the wider community.
It is meant to improve interfaith and Muslim-West relations and promote tolerance -- not just to provide services to Muslims. The proposed 15-story community center will include a prayer room, offices, meeting rooms, gym, swimming pool and performing arts center.
The controversy over Cordoba House is not an isolated event. It is part of a much more far-reaching pattern and problem.
It is unfortunate that most hear the word Muslim and the only association they draw is terrorism. And I am sure it is not just right-wing political commentators.
Whilst the big picture is nice, I think they may have overlooked the feelings of the victims. Christians (myself included) have no right being suspicious of Muslims after we did what we did during the Crusades. Not all Muslims are terrorists and whilst I think the idea of such a community center sounds great to me I think that it may seem like a slap in the face to the victims. The idea is a great one and I wouldn't be surprised if it was in some way inspired by the Christian-based YMCA, but New York is a big city and two blocks from Ground Zero may just not be far enough for some.
Seems wrong then to consider it prudent to take precautions against innocent Muslims or certainly hypocritical. Also, I don't think it's a precautionary measure to not allow an Islamic center to be built near ground zero. What would the precaution be?
I never said anything about ancestry. Christianity is a religion, and all Christians support an organization that orchestrated several whole-sale slaughters of Muslims in the past. Christians therefore have to consider how their Church played a role in this entire mess before they start hardlinging other religions.
I think the precautionary motive would not be to prevent any attacks but to prevent any negative reactions from the public, especially the families of the victims. More over I think people in New York would feel far more strongly about this than other citizens, and I think we must also take that into account.
I think many are making a bigger deal out of this than there needs to be. to be honest, 9/11 didn't affect me the way it did others. I feel that we need to encourage interfaith understanding and growth and that many will take an isolated demographic and apply it to the whole is unfortunate and stupid upon those that apply it.
As the old saying goes, when you assume you make and ass out of you and me.
I think the precautionary motive would not be to prevent any attacks but to prevent any negative reactions from the public, especially the families of the victims. More over I think people in New York would feel far more strongly about this than other citizens, and I think we must also take that into account.
The problem with this argument is that it only works if none of the victims--or the victims' families--were Muslims. However, this is far from the case. I know you aren't meaning to imply this, but to use the term "people in New York" as if no New Yorker prays to Allah is naivety at best, bigotry at worst.
Those of the Islamic faith who were outraged at the actions performed by a few, orchestrated by a slightly larger few, must be taken into account as well. They don't want people to think they are terrorists and that they hate America which is why the Cordoba House is being built:
It is meant to improve interfaith and Muslim-West relations and promote tolerance -- not just to provide services to Muslims. The proposed 15-story community center will include a prayer room, offices, meeting rooms, gym, swimming pool and performing arts center.
I highly recommend and urge everyone to read the entire link from the first post and consider the greater problem of Islamophobia that faces us as a culture*.
*Not to mention the negrophobia that has led to the embarrassing and harmful events stirred by Breibart that fell on Mrs. Sherrod these past 48 hours that we should do whatever we can to repudiate ourselves as a nation from. Every citizen deserves due process.
I wasn't meaning to exclude Islamic New Yorkers, I consider them just the same as any other New Yorker. They were perhaps even more shaken up by the terrorist attack than your average New Yorker because fellow followers of their faith attacked their city.
I'll put myself in their shoes. Let's say hypothetically it was the Westboro Baptist Church that had committed the attack and not radical Muslims. I would not only be outraged at what they had done but I would be ashamed because people who claimed to follow the same faith as me had just done an unspeakable thing. I am not in this situation and can therefore not truly say, but I believe I would not like to see a Christian church built near Ground Zero.
Improving Muslim relations with the West is a wonderful and very necessary goal if humanity as a whole is to prosper in the centuries to come, which is why I would be in favor of a center like this.
However I put this question to you, why does this center have to be so close to Ground Zero? They knew it would stir up undesirable feelings so why base it so close to why is a barely scarred over wound?
However I put this question to you, why does this center have to be so close to Ground Zero? They knew it would stir up undesirable feelings so why base it so close to why is a barely scarred over wound?
Maybe it's the only spot they could squeeze in a 15 story building?
This entire argument is making a mountain out of a molehill. Not to sound rude but why should I care if they're building a Mosque, a Synagogue, or Church in a neighborhood that has a reasonable number of devotees? Islam isn't inherently any more crazy and irrational than any other religion, we just happen to be angrier at the Islamic Fanatical mooks at the moment than we are at any other types of fanatical irrational mooks.
If the Westboro baptist church destroyed the world trade center would you be mad if the Catholics built a church near ground zero? The people building this particular Mosque are moderate muslims without any discernible connections to extremism other than ostensibly believing in the same god. Your argument would hold merit if we were discussing them putting up a Fundamentalist Sunni institution near ground zero. Islam is just as diverse as christianity, and to penalize liberal muslims for the actions of fanatics is irrational.
Being offended at the building of a place of worship is irrational at best and woefully racist at worst.
Opponents say that building a Muslim-led community center near Ground Zero, a site of profound American loss and pain, would be a "victory" for militant Muslims and a loss for Americans. In fact, it is the undermining of Cordoba House that would be a true loss for Americans. One need only look as far as its name - inspired by the medieval city in Spain, Cordoba, where Christians, Jews and Muslims co-existed and thrived for 800 years - to realize that these critics are misguided.
I said I would be mad or at the very least displeased.
The bottom line is this whole discussion is pointless. There is no reason this community center has to be built near Ground Zero. If they had built in somewhere else in New York it probably would have gotten great PR and would have been applauded for doing very necessary and noble work. However because they chose a spot that is within walking distance of one of America's greatest wounds this facility will never be portrayed in a positive light. No matter what this center will always be viewed negatively by some because of it's proximity.
I said I would be mad or at the very least displeased.
That doesn't make any rational sense, they aren't the same people, they don't have the same beliefs, and they happen to hate each other's guts. The Catholics think the wesboro baptists are assholes much in the same way that most muslims in New York would gladly beat the members of Al Queda with bricks. Most american muslims loath the irrational fundamentalism that has become the stereotype thanks to 9/11, it puts the Muslim population in a position where for some bizarre reason the white christian majority seems to want them to be in a constant state of periphery and apology.
The bottom line is this whole discussion is pointless. There is no reason this community center has to be built near Ground Zero. If they had built in somewhere else in New York it probably would have gotten great PR and would have been applauded for doing very necessary and noble work. However because they chose a spot that is within walking distance of one of America's greatest wounds this facility will never be portrayed in a positive light. No matter what this center will always be viewed negatively by some because of it's proximity.
The building is a Muslim run community center for the purposes of bridging the religious gap between Jews, Christians and Muslims. If a center built for that purpose but run by Christians or Jews is somehow less offensive to you then you need to seriously reconsider your world view.
I am not in this situation and can therefore not truly say, but I believe I would not like to see a Christian church built near Ground Zero.
Again: not a mosque. Community center. Significant difference between the two. When/if people ever realize this then maybe they wouldn't get their knickers all in a twist and people will laugh about this whole kerfuffle. Doubtful, but maybe.
Again: not a mosque. Community center. Significant difference between the two. When/if people ever realize this then maybe they wouldn't get their knickers all in a twist and people will laugh about this whole kerfuffle. Doubtful, but maybe.
An important distinction but honestly I think that it's alarming that if it were a mosque people would consider it to be so offensive. There are close to 12 churches and synagogues within a three block radius of the WTC wreckage, if the Christians, the Jews, and the Scientologists get to have places of worship in that part of town then the muslims have a legal right to do so too.
The ground zero thing is absolutely irrelevant. The problem is straight up racism and Islamophobia.
Firstly, you get the same reaction elsewhere. In particular;
Fear that Muslims attending the facility would kill neighbors was a theme among some who expressed their opposition. Others put their fears in more stark terms of their duty as Americans and Christians to wage war at home. ... Resident Jackie Archer agreed and expressed concerns over America's willingness to tolerate other religions.
I'm pretty sure that is a good definition of religious intollerance and Islamophobia right there.
At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims. "Go home," several shouted from the crowd. "Get out," others shouted. In fact, the two men - Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry -- were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.
For at least a significant minority of people, this isn't simply about the proximity to ground zero. It's about a socially acceptable way to attack muslims and fight a perceived Islamic invasion of good Christian America.
Also a rallying cry for in the majority who need a persecution complex to justify persecuting minorities.
I'm a christian and I can honestly say I don't care. A single building in the overall scheme of things doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. In every group or religion it's the noisy ones that make the rest look like idiots.
At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims. "Go home," several shouted from the crowd. "Get out," others shouted. In fact, the two men - Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry -- were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.
Again, not a mosque, it's a community center. One has a big, shiny dome shaped like a gilded cupcake and the other... probably doesn't. And the "National Republican Trust" can go fuck right off.
