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Jamspencer
France elects a Socialist president.So France have just elected a socialist president which could see great change in France and Europe for good or maybe for bad. What's people opinions on socialism? The change this world needs?
#1  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
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DoNothing69
In reply to Jamspencer, #1:

What is this entirely new concept called "socialism" you speak of?
#2  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote  |  + 1 Zing!
Jamspencer
In reply to DoNothing69, #2:

Socialism promotes social equality and community; and opposes capitalism. It supports the development of community life through advocating forced social cooperation and forced solidarity between people. While socialists support individuality they oppose the political economy of individualism promoted by capitalists. :)
#3  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
1984
Crosspost from the BAR: He's not actually a 'socialist'.
The PS was formed in 1971 as a result of the merger of the old, reformist SFIO (which, believe it or not, was the French for French Section of the Workers International) and various other groupings, under the leadership of Franois Mitterrand, who was to be elected President of France ten years later.

In its founding declaration, the PS proclaimed its equivalent to Labour Partys former Clause IV:
Socialism fixes its object as the common good not private profit. Progressive socialisation of the means of investment, production and exchange constitute the indispensable basis for this.

Waxing lyrical, it went on:
The socialist transformation cannot be the natural product of reforms correcting the effects of capitalism. It is not a question of re-arranging a system, but of substituting another one for it.

This was just rhetoric. When Mitterrand was elected President of France in 1981 he made it quite clear that he had not been elected to bring about a change of system, but only to bring about a change in the existing system.
#4  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
Jamspencer
In reply to 1984, #4:

Yeah he'd never get away with being a proper socialist in today's age. It'll take a huge revolution if proper socialism were to be introduced.
#5  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
ChaosAD
Well, at least the French didn't elect Marine Le Pen. Her father is also a piece of work.
#6  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
1984
In reply to Jamspencer, #5:

What is it with socialists and your bloody revolutions. Not everything requires a revolution to meet its ends. Gradual change is often more effective that out and out upheaval.

Look at the Neo-cons in America, they've got that down pat.
#7  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote  |  + 0 Lame
Jamspencer
In reply to 1984, #7:

:) I reckon it'll have to be a revolution. I don't think this is something that'll just happen over time.
#8  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
1984
In reply to Jamspencer, #8:

When all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like it's a nail.
#9  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote  |  + 2 Cool
Jamspencer
In reply to 1984, #9:

Haha :) I like that statement
#10  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
BigBen Forum Mod
In reply to 1984, #4:

Although I dislike the gradual broadening of the word "socialist," that article is splitting some hairs.

The PS isn't "socialist" in the sense that political parties in the 30's and the 60's were "socialist." Those parties, up to and including the British labour party had as part of their explicit platforms that they were seeking marxist/socialist end goals.

They were using socialist as something almost synonymous with "communist." The primary distinction believed that the former sought to achive these ends through democratic consensus, while the latter sought to impose these changes from the top down.

New Labor and other new left parties have, for the most part abandoned that, but often retained "socialist" naming. Socialist now means something other than strictly marxist.

So, Hollende is not strictly a socialist in the sense that workers parties in the 50's and 60's were socialist, he is, in the french context, still decidedly to the left. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Hollande]

A wiki on his policies -

- withdrawal of french troops from the ISAF mission in Afghanistan
- Creation of an inter-european banking agency to regulate european banks and to require seperation of investment banks and lending banks.
- Reducing reliance on Nuclear power from its present state of 75% of all power generated in france to about 50% in favor of renewable energy.
- Supports merging income taxes and payroll taxes and the creation of a 45% tax bracket for income of over 150,000 euros (About $300k)
- Supports expanding the public school system by 60,000 teachers and apprenticeship programs in schools that would total creation of 150,000 jobs.
- Construction of up to 500,000 additional subsidized houses by doubling the grants to local entities
- supports same sex marriage

#11  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
Jamspencer
In reply to BigBen, #11:

Thanks for the post and link. Gave some really important information.
#12  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
ChaosAD
In reply to BigBen, #11:

The platform might *say* reducing reliance on nuclear, but now that Germany has vowed to eliminate nuclear energy, who do you think they'll be importing energy from? I have a feeling France will build more plants, and export energy to Germany. Renewables only work if you also have large, cheap, high-efficiency batteries, something that hasn't been solved yet.

I always enjoy talking energy policy with people. It sounds good and looks good on paper, but in reality, for most countries, renewable energy is a long-term goal, and only viable if major breakthroughs are achieved.
#13  Posted 2 years ago  |  Reply  |  Quote
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