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Lack of LGBT Characters In RWBY (Criticism)

Posts (39)

  • ankwank

    ankwank

    #32924088 - 2 years ago

    lmao that roosterteeth has made all the RWBY characters straight so far. they have absolutely no reason to not include LGBT characters (no network restrictions, no need to worry about public backlash even tho it prob would happen it wouldnt be a big deal, just crappy fans). Yet… they haven’t. And they probably won’t, lest it be a stereotypical character (like Donut in RVB whose character has been reduced to a single trope throughout the seasons) or a very minor or background character. From my knowledge the show is written by straight males who probably have put no consideration into this and I expect that they will not in the future, and that is extremely disappointing.

    I'm sure this has been brought up before. Still, they have no excuse.

  • Malochroma

    Malochroma FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Mollymaukery

    #32924507 - 2 years ago

    Didn't they already say in that QnA that they were going to be introducing LGBTQ+ characters soon (assuming we haven't already been introduced to them and we just don't know it, there hasn't been time for a metric dickload of character development, after all)? They know it's what the fans want and they're making it happen.

    It has been brought up before. And it's being addressed. Pretty soon, if what Miles and Kerry said was accurate. Get hype, people, it's happening.

  • fourworlds

    fourworlds FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32924582 - 2 years ago

    Your criticism seems rather harsh. It's one thing to say "I wish they would introduce a LGBT character" and another to say say that they haven't even considered this. You can't possibly know everything they've thought about. You don't know what they have planned. So this judgement you seem so intent to pass on them feels a little strong.

    Also, you can't know that every RWBY character is straight, a character can be LGBT without constantly saying that they are. Perhaps they've introduced one already, and they are trying to build the character up before revealing that so that the character doesn't just become "the LGBT character", which I believe is something you would also like to avoid, as it doesn't help the character's development, the story. or anyone in the audience.

  • Flaming3mbers

    Flaming3mbers

    #32925052 - 2 years ago

    I don't want to add to the hate pile, but I think with that post, I could copy it and just replace the name with other TV shows or even Movies (excluding direct RT references) and it would still make the same point.

    And yes. they may be building up to it, I had a friend for 3 years before I found out that he was actually gay which was surprising to me. It would definitely be better to build it up not just outright say he was LGBT.

  • Malochroma

    Malochroma FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Mollymaukery

    #32925090 - 2 years ago

    Like, as a pansexual genderfluid person, I understand the need for more representation and how euphoric that representation can be when it finally happens. I know why you're angry about the lack of LGBTQ+ people in the media and what you're saying with this post. Trust me, I get it.

    But saying "they probably have put no consideration into LGBTQ+ characters" when Miles and Kerry have actively stated that it is going to be A Thing is remarkably silly. Especially given how one of the main four voice actresses is bisexual and has been pretty openly enthusiastic about one of the bigger femslash ships in the fandom.

  • RhoscPixie

    RhoscPixie

    #32925656 - 2 years ago

    We haven't properly and fully been introduced to every character on every team yet. We know a bunch about Team RWBY and JNPR, but what about SSSN or ABRN or BRNZ or Neo, Emerald, Cinder, Mercury, or even any of the adult characters in the show? We don't know every character yet, and maybe even someone from RWBY or JNPR isn't 100% open about their sexual/gender orientation because of part of their background, and it'll be revealed when the time is right for the character within the plot of the show.

  • Splee_Spree

    Splee_Spree YOUR AD HERE

    #32931747 - 2 years ago

    In reply to ankwank

    Only 3.8% of the population identifies as LGBT. That means fewer than one out of every 25. Are there even 25 characters yet?

    Furthermore, how the hell do you know no of them are LGBT? Do they have to where a damn badge? Or maybe not everyone identifies themselves primarily by their sexuality.

    The second you establish a quota for one group of people, everyone else will want one. That means dozens of extra characters that exist simply to please people mired in identity politics. To me, their sexuality doesn't really matter unless it affects the story. The character is what matters.

  • arfman21

    arfman21

    #32933721 - 2 years ago

    Who cares? Whether a character introduced is gay or not is up to writers. Forcing or pressuring them to make them will lead to the show losing the charm and creative flair that it has. Besides the writers have said that they will have gay characters so we can only trust their word. Either way, no matter what you want from the show, there is always fanfictio

  • Miseo

    Miseo FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32936868 - 2 years ago

    I really don't think it matters if a show has LGBT characters or not. That seems like a really low priority to me.

  • rokujo

    rokujo

    #32936990 - 2 years ago

    So let's say one of the characters we've already seen is LGBT, how would you want that shown? Do you want them to say "HEY, I'M LGBT." as soon as they're introduced? You want them flirting with every character on the show according to their preferences? I'm not exactly sure what you want, but that's not realistic at all. Someone could be LGBT without making it obvious too. This isn't even a romance anime so why would something like that be important?

    I can tell who's the Tumblr social justice warrior here.

  • ankwank

    ankwank

    #33069241 - 2 years ago

    I am actually not a tumblr social justice warrior. I don't agree with a lot of points on social justice. However, you cannot argue that there is no need for gay characters unless it affects the story because then the opposite would be true as well. Is there any reason for there to be a heterosexual romance unless it affects the story? Does Weiss's crush on Neptune affect the story? Does Blake's crush on (fuck whats the monkey guys name i cant remember) affect the story?


    Look. And hear me out. I'm not saying I want LGBT characters whose entire character is based on their sexuality. I don't want them to be like OH BTW LOOK AT ME IM GAY. Perhaps I was a bit bitter when I made the thread, and a bit harsh. I'm simply saying that it would be nice. I look at RVB's treatment of Donut and how he went from a character with an actual personality to a Camp Gay running joke because he wore pink armor, and while the humor is funny at times, it is a bit distasteful. I don't know what point I'm trying to make. Mostly, I'm just disheartened by the negative and rather immature response to this thread.


    I also did not know that they said they would have gay characters eventually.

  • ankwank

    ankwank

    #33069242 - 2 years ago

    In reply to Malochroma

    I was not aware of this, I don't really keep up with the show that much besides just watching new eps. I am happy that they aren't shying away from it and I am excited to see what happens. Thank you for the mature response.

  • Splee_Spree

    Splee_Spree YOUR AD HERE

    #33069394 - 2 years ago

    "However, you cannot argue that there is no need for gay characters unless it affects the story because then the opposite would be true as well. Is there any reason for there to be a heterosexual romance unless it affects the story? Does Weiss's crush on Neptune affect the story? Does Blake's crush on (fuck whats the monkey guys name i cant remember) affect the story?"


    Well first of all, I don't think any of us ever said there is any need for there to be a heterosexual romance unless it affects the story. I think you've inadvertently created a strawman. In fact, that was the point I was trying to make: none of it is necessary unless it affects the story. And while Blake's crush doesn't mean much yet, Jaune's relationship with Pyrrha (that's how you spell it, right?) clearly is important as it is affecting both of their characters's development and will clearly continue to do so. I think this relationship is actually important to the story.


    But I just don't see the need of just about any of this. Every demographic wants to be represented in everything, but apart from the fact that you have no right to that, it's also often times illogical. As I pointed out before, if there world is anything like ours than LGBT people make up 3.8% of the population. On the RWBY wiki characters page, there are 60 characters in total. This includes characters as minor as Tukson, the shopkeeper, and that dog. That would mean 2 characters would be expected to be LGBT. Now the majority of these characters have only had lines in one or two episodes, if that. It's unlikely that we would have any way of knowing their sexuality so far.


    So again, I have to ask, how are they going to establish someone's sexuality without explicitly and blatantly making that statement?


    Let's look at the characters whose sexuality we ARE aware of. The answer is zero, technically. Yes, Blake likes Sun, Weiss apparently has some interest in Neptune(?), there's Pyrrha and Jaune (though I don't know if we're certain that she has romantic feelings towards him), and then Ren and Nora appear to be a thing. Yet any of them could be bisexual, couldn't they?


    But on the whole, probably fewer than a dozen characters have had ANY indication of their sexuality. As time goes on, as more characters are introduced, and we have more time to learn more about them, I'm sure you'll get what you're demanding. It would not surprise me at all if we've already met the first character that will be confirmed as LGBT.


    "Mostly, I'm just disheartened by the negative and rather immature response to this thread."


    I guess you could call it negative it you mean in relationship to your point. Most people did disagree. But I don't think it has been very immature. There was that one post where someone implicitly called you an SJW, which may have been jumping the gun, but other than that I think everyone has been fairly objective here. (I think she may have taken your apparent implication that the writers are inconsiderate BECAUSE they are straight males as an attack and thought all bets were offs.) I think perhaps you were surprised to see so many people disagree with you and not feel the need to apologize for it. But you can't be upset with them about that, because it would mean you expected to have everyone agree with your premise instead of having a debate about it.


    I think (with that one exception), no one here has any problems with you, LGBT people, or anything like that. We just don't think that it's in any way unreasonable for there to not be a confirmed LGBT character so far. When they do inevitably make a point to include that in the show, I think the only complaining you'll see here is over it's execution. People might be considered that it felt too forced, that it felt too muted, or that it should have been an, but not that it didn't belong in the first place.


    EDIT:

    I just can't HELP being long-winded, can I?

  • Jevanee

    Jevanee FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33070274 - 2 years ago

    I think part of the issue here, is your viewpoint. I don't want to sound like I'm being aggressive or anything, just pointing something out. But your assuming all the characters are heterosexual, based on no grounds. Yeah some of them have apparent interests in characters of the opposite gender, but none of them have said it's exclusive. And as for the rest, it hasn't even come up if memory serves. Ruby could be attracted to girls, I mean she's never said anything to the contrary. Weiss could be bisexual, just because she has eyes for Neptune doesn't mean it's only men.

    Over half of the characters could be anything but heterosexual and we wouldn't know, as it hasn't been mentioned. But because they haven't claimed to be a certain persuasion, you're assuming they are heterosexual based on their gender alone.

    Again, I'm not trying to sound annoyed or like I'm attacking you, but I would urge you to hold judgement until you have been proved correct.


    PS. Also I believe Donut is heterosexual, if I remember rightly one of the alternate endings of the blood gulch chronicles said he married a dancer called Tiffany and had a bunch of kids.

  • ankwank

    ankwank

    #33070670 - 2 years ago

    In reply to Jevanee

    I was not saying that it was impossible for any of them to be bi or pan. The point i was making was against the fact that it would not be relevant to the plot for there to be a "gay" relationship when only straight interests have been shown thus far. You are not being aggressive, do not worry. My main issue here now is the reactions to this topic about it being irrelevant or unnecessary. It says a lot.


    Also, Donut's hyper-effeminate personality escalates after BGC, if I can recall. There are a lot of jokes that make me cringe, and while I know thats just the manner of the show itself, still.

  • Jevanee

    Jevanee FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33077197 - 2 years ago

    In reply to ankwank

    Okay good, it's sometimes hard to convey tone via text.
    But yeah I feel a lot of the reactions come from your initial post, which was quite harshly worded. That kind of thing makes people feel inclined to respond negatively.
    I will say for the case of RWBY however, only one romantic relationship is really relevant to the plot which is Pyrrha and Jaune. And that one works as a heterosexual interest, because of the two characters involved and their relationship leading up to now. Weiss and Neptune was more of plot tool to put tension on Pyrrha and Jaune. Then Blake and Sun seem to have implied feelings, but that's not been confirmed as it's not relevant to the story at the moment.
    My point being that only one relationship is currently relevant to the plot, and it wouldn't work with any other characters.
    I'm sure that in due time more relationships will surface when the time is right. However adding more to the current story would become too much to keep track of.

    In general, I've always felt a relationship should be built carefully. I don't think a non-heterosexual relationship should be added to something just because the writer or studio thinks they should. I do appreciate there is a lack of representation for the LGBT community in media, especially for main characters. But it should be an almost natural development between characters who suit it, like in Avatar: The Legend of Korra, for example. If some characters are LGBT then great! But they shouldn't HAVE to be. Much the same as straight characters, they shouldn't HAVE to be straight just to fill the diversity quota. It should be based on the characters involved and the story at hand.

    At least that's my opinion, not saying it's right or wrong. I hope that makes sense, I'm not brilliant and explaining my thoughts!




  • Splee_Spree

    Splee_Spree YOUR AD HERE

    #33079450 - 2 years ago

    In reply to ankwank

    "The point i was making was against the fact that it would not be relevant to the plot for there to be a "gay" relationship when only straight interests have been shown thus far."


    I still don't think you've justified your point here.


    Let me restructure this: what's the metric for determining if a show has the proper quota on LGBT relationships? This is a serious question. Because you can't being angry at someone if they aren't breaking any rules and aren't doing anything wrong. So there needs to be an objective way to tell if what they have done is wrong.


    So what's the answer? How many heterosexual relationships warrant the presence of an LGBT one?


    Further, is one enough? Does having a gay relationship really fulfill the need for a bi, trans or lesbian one? If the answer is no, then we must have a quota for each of these, don't we? Again, I'm not asking rhetorical questions; I'm seriously trying to work this out.


    And here's a hypothetical: what if there was a show where every relationship shown was an LGBT one? Does there now need to be a quota for heterosexual relationships? Because I would never demand that. Even though it's not fair by your standards. To me, it's about the artist's vision. They don't owe you anything.


    "My main issue here now is the reactions to this topic about it being irrelevant or unnecessary."


    I think that's because you haven't explained WHY it is necessary. You seem frustrated because people are disagreeing, but it seems like they don't have a reason to agree yet. It's not a given, clearly. I gather that it is relevant to YOU, and probably others as well. But what is relevant to some is not to others. Without giving TMI, there's a small percentage of the population (about 2.3%, if I remember correctly) that I belong to that has a TERRIBLE history of being portrayed in media. But I've never demanded that I be catered to because there doesn't seem to be a need. Just a desire on my part. And I'm simply trying to understand why the case you've given is different.

  • TheJersy

    TheJersy

    #33083223 - 2 years ago

    Please, just stop. Can't we just enjoy the show without this sociopolitical bullcrap?

  • ankwank

    ankwank

    #33101397 - 2 years ago

    In reply to SpleeSpree

    Okay, first part. You're right, they don't owe me or anyone anything. However, Roosterteeth does have a large LGBT following. There is not a quota. But you cannot deny the sheer scale of heterosexual/cis characters in any form of popular media versus LGBT characters. My main point, I suppose, is that Roosterteeth produces content without network restrictions. It's not like they have a show that producers aren't going to allow LGBT characters in for the sake of ratings/revenue concern as well as outlash from viewers who don't realize it's 2016 and not 1960. So they have no excuse not to have gay characters. Does it need to fuel the plot? No.


    Let's give some examples of where modern media has had gay characters where their gay....ness was not relevant to the plot. Renly from GOT. Several characters in The Walking Dead. I had more examples but I'm lazy.Honestly idk what point I'm making here but its just examples of something. I'm bad at arguing and honestly like... my feelings on this now are way less harsh than the original post. Brief frustration I acted upon.


    It doesn't matter what the majority is, in my opinion. And you know what? It really doesn't matter if they make any characters LGBT. I'll still watch the show. I'm not into representation for representation sake. I remember once a person in a stream for an artist I followed talking about a webcomic they wanted to make, detailing monster-person characters where the only information they had for their comic was the various extravagantly worded sexualities and genders that they had. No plot, no nothing. Just that. I don't like that. Really, all I want is lesbians. If it doesn't happen, so be it. This whole argument is dumb because you're right, I dont really have a point. Hence why I gave up halfway through this post.

  • ankwank

    ankwank

    #33101398 - 2 years ago

    In reply to TheJersy

    No. No fun allowed.

  • Splee_Spree

    Splee_Spree YOUR AD HERE

    #33102920 - 2 years ago

    "There is not a quota."


    Then, while I can understand being disappointed, I can't understand how you ever be mad at the show's creators or claim that they have done anything wrong.


    "But you cannot deny the sheer scale of heterosexual/cis characters in any form of popular media versus LGBT characters."


    I have highlighted this exact fact multiple times. And I've explained that it is logical. When less than 4% of your population identifies as LGTB, you SHOULD have a MASSIVE gap. Roughly 1 out of every 25 characters at the most.


    "So they have no excuse not to have gay characters."


    But that simply isn't true, at least not as I can see it. Any excuse is an acceptable excuse, because as you said, they have no obligations. When you have a limited number of characters, you have a limited number of relationships. And we just haven't seen many relationships so far. And of those we've seen, none of them rule out the possibility that one or both of the characters is bi or trans. Not that it should matter, as no one show should be held to a such a strict proportional representation (especially in a fictional setting). For example, I'm sure there are people from Illinois or Ohio who feel that there need to be more characters in their favorite shows who are explicitly confirmed to be from their states, but it's just that. A feeling. A desire, and one that has no need to be fulfilled.


    "Really, all I want is lesbians. If it doesn't happen, so be it. This whole argument is dumb because you're right, I dont really have a point. Hence why I gave up halfway through this post."


    I sense there may be some sarcasm in your post. You'll have to forgive me; because I haven't been able to see your point so far, I don't feel qualified to determine what is and is not sarcasm. I guess if you are being sarcastic, I don't have anything to say about that.


    If you are being genuine there, well then I guess I still don't have much more to say (except of course that saying all you cared about was having lesbians would be an extremely ironic thing to say).


    For the record, I DO understand your DESIRE to see more characters that have characteristics that you might identify with on some level and/or are important to you. I assume, since you've already said you're not into the whole "social justice" thing, that your interest in this is personal. My only advice would be: never to look one thing for everything that you want (if that makes sense). You'll never find one political commentator whose you agree with on 100% of their opinions. You'll never find a show where you laugh at 100% of the jokes. And you'll never find a person who never makes you upset. Now they have already said they plan to add LGBT characters into RWBY. But even if they didn't, it wouldn't be the end of the world. You can like a show for it's story and characters, even if it doesn't have everything you wish it could be. After all, there are shows that DO have what you're seeking in the LGBT representation department. And not EVERY show must address every conceivable topic that might be important to anyone. RWBY has no more duty to do that than any other show.


    But I guess I'm getting dangerously close to "lecturing", so I'll shut up for now.

  • arfman21

    arfman21

    #33103499 - 2 years ago

    Again, the characters are ultimately up to the creators. This discussion is pointless.


    If people want more non Hetero characters, they can make their own series. I personally do not care so long as the writing is good. If you don't have the creative skill needed to make it, then tough luck.


    The characters are the soul of a creation, and no one has the right of pushing for their agenda in someone else's work. They've said there will be gay characters, so trust the writers and wait


  • Drone205

    Drone205

    #33319493 - 1 year ago

    RoosterTeeth has said that they will introduce a LGBT character(s) if not already. if I remember correctly they have said that there has been hints of this all-ready in the show. If they do My bets on that Yang though this may be my bumble bee bias but I say that Yang likes Blake as more than friends.

  • TiffanyJung

    TiffanyJung

    #33354215 - 1 year ago

    I really don't understand why every show and every book should have LGBT characters. If you want LGBT characters , you can very well write your own version. 


    And this isn't homophobia speaking, but this is mainly because I don't relate well to LGBT characters. And I know that a characters sexuality shouldn't matter, but honestly it does to me. 


    In real life, I frankly don't care what LGBT people do. But I'd rather not be force fed LGBT characters in every god damn show that I watch. 


    Even if it's for the sake of diversity. And while , yes representation is important, it's not fair that every one expects that there will be LGBT characters in every book or show. If I ever write a story, there aren't going to be  any LGBT characters because I don't want to write about them. Period. 


    And what's worse is that sometimes even canon straight characters are turned LGBT to make the show more 'diverse'.You don't do that, you just don't. 


    For example in OUAT , Mulan and Aurora are  shown to be Bisexual. You don't just retcon the fact that in the original version they were straight and happily married. You don't do that at all. Even if Disney is ABC's parent company. 


    Do I mind the fact that Dorothy and Red Riding Hood are lesbians? No, I don't but I would just skip over them. 


    Call me homophobic if you want but that's not going to change my opinion. -_-

  • TiffanyJung

    TiffanyJung

    #33354224 - 1 year ago

    In reply to SpleeSpree

    "There is not a quota."


    Then, while I can understand being disappointed, I can't understand how you ever be mad at the show's creators or claim that they have done anything wrong.


    "But you cannot deny the sheer scale of heterosexual/cis characters in any form of popular media versus LGBT characters."


    I have highlighted this exact fact multiple times. And I've explained that it is logical. When less than 4% of your population identifies as LGTB, you SHOULD have a MASSIVE gap. Roughly 1 out of every 25 characters at the most.


    "So they have no excuse not to have gay characters."


    But that simply isn't true, at least not as I can see it. Any excuse is an acceptable excuse, because as you said, they have no obligations. When you have a limited number of characters, you have a limited number of relationships. And we just haven't seen many relationships so far. And of those we've seen, none of them rule out the possibility that one or both of the characters is bi or trans. Not that it should matter, as no one show should be held to a such a strict proportional representation (especially in a fictional setting). For example, I'm sure there are people from Illinois or Ohio who feel that there need to be more characters in their favorite shows who are explicitly confirmed to be from their states, but it's just that. A feeling. A desire, and one that has no need to be fulfilled.


    "Really, all I want is lesbians. If it doesn't happen, so be it. This whole argument is dumb because you're right, I dont really have a point. Hence why I gave up halfway through this post."


    I sense there may be some sarcasm in your post. You'll have to forgive me; because I haven't been able to see your point so far, I don't feel qualified to determine what is and is not sarcasm. I guess if you are being sarcastic, I don't have anything to say about that.


    If you are being genuine there, well then I guess I still don't have much more to say (except of course that saying all you cared about was having lesbians would be an extremely ironic thing to say).


    For the record, I DO understand your DESIRE to see more characters that have characteristics that you might identify with on some level and/or are important to you. I assume, since you've already said you're not into the whole "social justice" thing, that your interest in this is personal. My only advice would be: never to look one thing for everything that you want (if that makes sense). You'll never find one political commentator whose you agree with on 100% of their opinions. You'll never find a show where you laugh at 100% of the jokes. And you'll never find a person who never makes you upset. Now they have already said they plan to add LGBT characters into RWBY. But even if they didn't, it wouldn't be the end of the world. You can like a show for it's story and characters, even if it doesn't have everything you wish it could be. After all, there are shows that DO have what you're seeking in the LGBT representation department. And not EVERY show must address every conceivable topic that might be important to anyone. RWBY has no more duty to do that than any other show.


    But I guess I'm getting dangerously close to "lecturing", so I'll shut up for now.

    Exactly. There are already shows which have LGBT characters. If they want, they can watch them. Not every show has to cater to their wishes or desires.