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Is Raven "The" villian?

Posts (117)

  • Vivamort

    Vivamort FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32937554 - 3 years ago

    So at the very end of Volume 2, Raven talks with Yang. But it hasn't come up yet in Volume 3. So on my way home from work today I was thinking about this. And I started wondering, is it possible that Raven is the Queen, and that Cinder is just a high level underling?

    So when we first see Raven, she appears to save Yang from being stabbed by Neo. Neo doesn't even attempt to engage her, but just hurriedly leaves. Is this because she knows who she is, because Neo doesn't seem to be a scaredy cat. So it seemed odd she didn't even give it a try.

    When we see Raven she is wearing a Grimm mask, like the White Fang bad guys. Does this mean she is a bad guy too?

    After Raven saves Yang, she does nothing else to help the situation. She just leaves and lets the bad guy's plot continue on its merry way.

    The fact that Yang hasn't mentioned her yet apparently. Did Raven swear her to secrecy? Suspicious I say!

    Qrow mentions that the Queen is there at Beacon, and Raven was there to talk to Yang at the end of Volume 2. Could cutting to Cinder after Qrow's announcement just be a way to make us think she is the head bad guy?

    Is Qrow the one scouting this all out because he knows his sister(?) best.

    And then also remember when Yang was telling Blake her childhood story about looking for her mother and she tracked her down to some cabin in the forest and only Grimm were there, did Raven lure the Grimm there with her negative emotions, or worse made them? and Qrow just happened to be there to save Yang and Ruby? What was Qrow doing, tracking down Yang, or Raven?

    Qrow says the queen has made things that are fear, Cinder doesn't seem to be making anything, she is just a badass. Maybe Raven can make Grimm... or something like that? could also explain the Grimm mask.

    Anyway just some thoughts I wanted to share.

  • fireflyrocked

    fireflyrocked FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32937642 - 3 years ago

    In reply to Vivamort

    Wow! What a great idea. That would explain so many things. I guess I assumed Raven was a good guy because she is Yang's mom. That would explain why she left baby Yang (turned bad guy), why Neo bugged out (holy crap its the big boss), why Qrow (a teacher) is out scouting the badlands, why nobody will talk about her to Yang, why Oz let Ruby in early, the mask, and the overall powerful badass thing she has.

    The hole in the theory is, if she is the "Queen", what could she have said to Yang that didn't make her freak out. Yang clearly knows something (over the shoulder glare at E and M) but she is keeping quiet like the "talk" never happened?

    Anyway Viva, I think you are really, really cool and I wanna be your friend.-ff

  • Vivamort

    Vivamort FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32937756 - 3 years ago

    So I have thought of some counter arguments to show that Raven is a good guy because some of those scenes as well.

    1) Raven didn't stick around after saving Yang, because she was on a different mission and getting involved would have compromised her more than she wanted.

    2) Maybe, when Raven and Yang met, she explained the situation and what her, good guy, part in it was, and swore her to secrecy.

    3) Maybe Cinder really is the bad guy at the center of this, and the writers aren't trying to cleverly mislead us.

    Anyway thank you for the responses!

    and

    In reply to fireflyrocked

    In reply to Vivamort

    Anyway Viva, I think you are really, really cool and I wanna be your friend.-ff

    Made me laugh, I totally heard Ruby's voice in that!

    And Firefly did rock!

  • fireflyrocked

    fireflyrocked FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32937776 - 3 years ago

    viva

    This popped into my head in the car this morning. I think Raven is the GUARDIAN that oz said they needed to find! Who else could it be? -ff

  • Vivamort

    Vivamort FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32937783 - 3 years ago

    It is Ruby. In the intro on Episode 1 The narrator says "So you may prepare your guardians... build your monuments to a so-called free world, but take heed... there will be no victory in strength." To which Ozpin replies, "But perhaps victory is in the simpler things that you've long forgotten. Things that require a smaller, more honest, soul." as they pan down to Ruby.

    However, when listening to that part again to get the quote right, maybe it is some more evidence that is counter to my Raven = Villain theory. Maybe the narrator Jennifer Taylor is the voice of the bad guy and she isn't Raven, but has said she voices someone in Volume 3, but not who.

  • fireflyrocked

    fireflyrocked FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32937835 - 3 years ago

    In reply to Vivamort

    Outstanding theory,but I'm not buying it. Oz quote aside, Ruby is just a dorky kid with a bad guy catching record of 0 for 3 (or is it 0 for 4 now?) She may be a guardian in training but she has a long way to go before shes that powerful. I mean, she is fast and pretty good with her weapons but she even wiffed at that one guy in the match (whaaat!). Key word in the Oz quote-"perhaps".

    I don't know if Raven is good or bad but whatever it is she's going to be a force. Nobody else has made my jaw drop the way she did just pulling out her sword. Watch that clip again and tell me if I'm wrong. No really, I can take it.

    Did JT really say she was going to VA in V3? I didn't see that. I wonder as who? Maybe she did Neo going "hmmm" in the fight. -ff

  • zGrimlock

    zGrimlock

    #32938126 - 3 years ago

    In reply to Vivamort

    I'll be honest, this is a theory i have held for several months, for a lot of the same reasons listed. I just don't buy Cinder as the top villain, simply because I don't buy that Ozpin, Glynda, and Qrow, don't even know what she looks like, but she could be a high up member without being one they would have come across.

    Also the fact that she wears a Grimm mask, just like the ones that the White Fang started wearing after their radicalization, could indicate she is somehow responsible for said radicalization, and it would explain how the White Fang wound up working with Cinder and Roman. Perhaps Adam is like her disciple or something? Blake implied he was the one who started the act of wearing those masks.

    Lastly what Qrow said in episode 3: This isn't another pawn its the one responsible for Autumn's condition. Not "This isn't another pawn, it's the queen herself."

    It makes sense Neo didn't know she was fighting her boss' daughter, so Raven probably showed up to say: "Back off, we need this one alive for the plan," and Neo complied.

    I still can't grasp what the plan is.

    There's that bit in the season 3 opener "Victory for Hate Incarnate." Like maybe she's...possessed....by the same thing that created the Creatures of Grimm. And let's not kid ourselves, whatever this is about, it's tied to Grimm's origins, that much I'm sure of.

    Lastly, that portal she makes? That shows up in at least two opening sequences, and both times it's shown causing destruction.

  • ElliotFlorence

    ElliotFlorence

    #32938183 - 3 years ago

    Awesome theory.

  • lizrosee

    lizrosee

    #32938269 - 3 years ago

    I actually had a the same thought after her whole encounter with Neo when she saved Yang. It's an interesting theory, but I feel like there isn't enough substantial evidence yet to assume so either. Guess we'll have to see how it all plays out.

  • ChaosWalking28o8

    ChaosWalking28o8

    #32938290 - 3 years ago

    Did I miss something because I have no idea when we found out Yang's mums name? (and I have the feeling that everyone but me knows this). I might just be stupid or something cause I have no idea where the name just came from. I feel like I should probably know this by now...

  • ElliotFlorence

    ElliotFlorence

    #32938370 - 3 years ago

    In reply to ChaosWalking


    the credits , it gives the character name and who their voice actor is.

  • fireflyrocked

    fireflyrocked FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32938373 - 3 years ago

    In reply to ChaosWalking

    Witch is correct. You might want to look at the RWBY WIKI page. They pour over all of the RT videos, panels, twitter feeds and production journals. Its not canon but they are pretty good.

  • fireflyrocked

    fireflyrocked FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32938375 - 3 years ago

    In reply to ChaosWalking

    Witch is correct. You might want to look at the RWBY WIKI page. They pour over all of the RT videos, panels, twitter feeds and production journals. Its not canon but they are pretty good.

  • fireflyrocked

    fireflyrocked FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32938378 - 3 years ago

    In reply to fireflyrocked oops. I hate it when I do that


  • Spack3rz

    Spack3rz FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32938408 - 3 years ago

    Yes! I'm glad other people are having similar thoughts! I hadn't thought about the Yang finding Grimm in Raven's cabin, but it makes a lot of sense. I talked about Raven's portals and their similarity to the thing in the openings here http://rwbytheories.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/raven-a... a while ago. You've got me thinking about it more though and I may have to update that post when I work a few more things out.

  • Spack3rz

    Spack3rz FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32938424 - 3 years ago

    Oh and in addition, I don't actually think that Yang and Raven have met yet. I think the after-credits clip was just there to tease what was going to happen later.

  • Vivamort

    Vivamort FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32938440 - 3 years ago

    In reply to Spack3rz

    Okay, as you say in your blog. That red portal looking animation does appear in all 3 opening animations. More suspicious. I like it! Nice work on that blog post!

    As far as Yang and Raven meeting, I didn't get the feeling that it was a teaser, but I guess we will see.

    Does anyone have Silver or Gray eyes besides Ruby? because the eyes near the beginning of Episode 2's Intro, don't seem to be the same shape as Ruby's (I compared her eyes from when Ozpin comments on them in Episode 1 of Volume 1 with the ones in Volume 2's intro). Are they Ruby's or someone else's?


  • Spack3rz

    Spack3rz FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32938451 - 3 years ago

    In reply to Vivamort

    Huh, I hadn't thought about the eyes (I had just always assumed they were Ruby's). It could be that they are Summer's, as the shot also has Ruby in it. Other than that, I don't know any other characters who have silver eyes (unless Autumn has them). I'll get back to you if I have any more ideas about it though.


  • ChaosWalking28o8

    ChaosWalking28o8

    #32938570 - 3 years ago

    In reply to fireflyrocked

    In reply to l0ne3lyw1tch

    Thanks, I was just wondering cause everyone but me knew this

    On the topic of Raven being the villain there's not much we can say because we've hardly seen any of her. But I reckon it is questionable why Raven left Yang so suddenly and then came out of no where, but in the end she did protect yang. And I reckon the reason Neo ran away so quick (this is a reply to the first post) is the same reason Mecury went to Cinder straight away when he saw Qrow: they're both extremely powerful. But Raven is still is a mystery


  • ChaosWalking28o8

    ChaosWalking28o8

    #32938572 - 3 years ago

    In reply to ChaosWalking


    *is still a mystery

  • sonic_htw

    sonic_htw

    #32938776 - 3 years ago

    In reply to Vivamort


    I share your theory on Raven being the main villain. In World of Remnant: Huntsman it is said "All are expected to serve humanity and never succumb to the darkness". I think thats what happened to Raven. She turned to the dark side or whatever.

    If that's true there is a possibility that she`s responsible for Summer`s death. We know that "Summer went on a mission and never came back." Was she chasing after her teammate Raven and got killed? Or did Raven ambush her during a mission out of jealousy because Summer came close to Taiyang?

    There are also hints that Cinder isn't the main antagonist of the show. When Qrow send that ominous message "The Queen has pawns" to Ozpin in season 1 i thought it referred to Cinder and her gang. But in the latest episode Qrow stated "Your little infiltrator isn't just another pawn" whitch refers to that time when Cinder infiltrated the Transmit tower during the ball dance in season 2. Qrow basically calls Cinder a pawn here.

    Another thing that Qrow said was "'I've been out there and I've seen the things she's made, and let me tell you - they are fear." My guess would he that Raven is making some kind of super Grimm. (Maybe something in style of Bleach with Captain Aizen and his Espada?).

    Also did no one wonder how Raven knew that Yang was in danger during the train fight? Is she somehow watching over her 24/7 or was she just there overseeing the whole mission from the shadows? It would explain why she only protected her daughter and didn't do anything about the grimm attacking the city, witch a huntress is supposed to fight right?

    If these theories are true it might even explain why Qrow is always drunk. After all, he is hunting his own sister.

  • fireflyrocked

    fireflyrocked FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32939154 - 3 years ago

    In reply to sonic_htw

    I think Qrow being drunk is just a comedy device. It lets him be unfiltered and crazy. I don't know for sure but I bet it was Vic the VA's idea. I mean, what a great part to play right?

  • ceruleansorbeltz

    ceruleansorbeltz FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #32939834 - 3 years ago

    That's a very good theory, but I get the feeling Raven is probably the story's Anti-Hero. Nominally an agent of the "Good" guys, but her methods being so morally ambiguous that she may be more trouble than help, and could end up snapping and actually forcing the heroes (in this case, Team RWBY or at least Yang) to fight her in order to achieve their goal in a way that isn't almost worse than outright failure.

    If I had to guess as to what she's been doing for the last 16 or 17 years, I would say that she infiltrated The Queen's organization (which, if it took her to the White Fang, could also explain the Nevermore mask). Which, if that turns out to be true, means that whatever threat she perceived was large enough to warrant walking out on her family, because she believes that she's the best suited to stop it. She's probably not actually evil, since she did save Yang... Though that does bring up the question of how she could have even known Yang needed saving. That aside, I expect she'll be a lone-wolf type of character, and probably has the power/skill to back that attitude up, as evidenced by Neo (who knows of her because she's been a thorn in their faction's side for quite a while now) instantly fleeing as soon as she realized who she was facing.

    On a side note, if she's been investigating The Queen for 16+ years, and The Queen is at Beacon... That casts some serious doubt as to whether Cinder is actually The Queen and not just one of the pawns that Qrow was talking about in his message to Ozpin way back in Volume... 1, I think. For Cinder to have been a credible threat to mankind back then, she would have had to have been at least old enough to be a student of one of the Academies, and likely a little bit older than that to have the necessary skill and experience to be frightening even to experienced Hunters... Which would mean she's in her mid-thirties at best, and pretending to be 17. And while I realize that with computer generated animation, age has to be taken with at least a pinch of salt, I highly doubt that a 34 year old woman, let alone one who may actually be in her 40s, and who wears clothing as form fitting as Cinder does, is going to get away with pretending to be 17, while being surrounded by actual 17 year olds. If Raven is not the Queen, and Cinder isn't either, The Queen isn't somebody we already know about... Unless it's Professor Peach, being the one named, potentially female character we haven't actually seen on screen yet, outside of Jaune's sisters (unless none of them have actually been officially named yet).

  • ElliotFlorence

    ElliotFlorence

    #32940048 - 3 years ago

    In reply to DerekAbraham

    actually, One can actually look really young but actually be older than they look. For example a person I know looks like they are in their 20's when they are actually much older than that. height can play a major role in that. as well as genetics. Also once when i was at an festival, I took the age guessing game....they guessed three years below my actual age.

  • Crackker

    Crackker

    #32940227 - 3 years ago

    So I think one of the things that needs to be taken into consideration is the imagery of the characters. The world and plot of RWBY are based around imagery and the connections those images make, just as much as the goings on of the plot itself.

    Raven wears a Nevermore mask, as well she shares the same color scheme of clothing with Adam who is the founder of the radicalized White Fang and the leader who began the theme of wearing Grimm masks. This can't be a coincidence, just as much as the fact that "Raven" is wearing the mask of a Grimm which is essentially an overgrown, evil "Raven" (The famous poem by Poe "The Raven" in which the bird repeats the word "Nevermore"). Similarly, Adam appeared and began changing the White Fang after a reasonable amount of time had passed from when Raven left Yang and Taiyang. Just long enough for Raven to have trained him and given him goals and ideals? This could easily explain why the color schemes of their outfits are so similar. As for the Nevermore mask she wears, this could easily symbolize the fact that she has succumbed to the "Darkness", being a "Raven" herself the darkness has "Transformed" her into a "Nevermore". However, Raven is a Human. If she was the one who trained Adam as I suspect she is, she clearly has some plan involving the Fauniss (Or... however that's spelled...), most likely relating to some secret that has been lost since the Great War. It bears mentioning that we don't actually know that the Grimm are 100% evil. They're aggressive towards people and are drawn towards negativity, sure. But that could easily come from some wrong that people committed in the past, rather than just "The natural order". This could be the secret that Raven is working to reveal.

    All that being said, I don't believe that Raven is the one in charge, either. I think she's close to the top, but I think there's more beyond her. Cinder is some kind of Lieutenant. Qrow identified the "Infiltrator" as "Not just another pawn". The wording is important, there. "Not just another" is more important than the word "Pawn". There have also been many direct chess references (Beyond the typical ways we reference chess when talking about war, mind you) since the very first episodes. Team RWBY, for example, picked up the White Knight pieces in the intro mission in the forest. JNPR picked up the White Rook. Seeing as how JNPR has two members with shields and a lot of very defense-heavy semblances (We still don't know exactly what Jaune's is, but it would seem to be defense oriented, or at the very least some kind of support), it's safe to say that the Rook they picked up was symbolic of their team as a whole. I don't feel the need to elaborate on this since I think it's clear enough. I'm not going to speculate on whether Raven is the "Queen" or not, but I have a feeling the Queen symbolism represents more than just a single person. Of course, in Chess, while the Queen is the most powerful piece, the only way to win is to take the King, so at the very least there's another piece that we know nothing about, so even if Raven IS the Queen, there's still got to be someone above her.