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Pyrrha Nikos general discussion

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  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740618 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    We know Aura isnt 100% protection. 

    Heat cold and pain are all stated to get through though the damage doesnt when its caused by things like fire or an ice dust. 

    Polarity might be one of those things that naturally pass through without being stopped.

    Since we know some things are allowed to freely go through its not strange other things normally not harmful also comes through.


    As for Penny and her free will there is a better then average chance she was the first of her kind and they really didnt know what to do with her. From the sounds of it I dont think they MEANT for her to have aura at all and rather its one of those happy accidents.


    And we already know the answer to this its a conspiracy show.

    Ozpin has a secret society

    Magic a real and powerful force has intentionally been hidden by Ozpin

    Ozpin has meet and interacted with the gods who many dont believe in today as Qrow directly mentions.

    We have Salem working behind the scenes. We have cinder acting as her agent we have Cinder subverting Ozpin's society to her own ends.

    We have Robots with free will and souls being kept from the general public.

    These in the amounts and how plot focused it is in the show make this a conspiracy show just one with also action.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33740619 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    And that's the problem: your preference to face value.  It shows that you do not desire in any way to delve further.  Other than that, your rambling is incoherent and not worth listening to anymore.  Don't quote numbers if you don't have data to back it up.

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.2

    #33740684 - 1 week ago

    Is it weird its just past Columbus day and this forum is now on page 1492?

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740685 - 1 week ago

    In reply to JROY

    Okay yes that is funny I didnt even recall that what was it in 1492 columbus sailed the ocean blue I think it was?

  • JROY

    JROY FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Gaurdian Lvl.2

    #33740686 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Its when he landed in the new world. He wasn't the first European to discover the new continents it was actually Vikings who discovered what would become Newfoundland way before.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740687 - 1 week ago

    In reply to JROY

    That I am more then well aware columbus just isnt my area you know.

  • Ace-of-Rogues

    Ace-of-Rogues

    #33740691 - 1 week ago

    In reply to JROY

    And Columbus had no idea where he'd landed either. He mistakenly calculated that the Earth was smaller than what was believed at the time, and thought that the Orient wasn't as far to the West as everyone else believed. And then we could get into what he did to the natives he met. Kinda makes you wonder why exactly the guy gets a national holiday.

  • acw28

    acw28

    #33740699 - 1 week ago

    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    *Edited for typos*

    Not to mention his failure as a governor of the colony he started, and his arrest by the Spanish crown for said failure. As for why why he gets a holiday, well the answer is actually immigration. I'm not joking, you see during the massive immigration waves of the late 19th century and early 20th century a lot of Italians came to the USA. As these people were in a new land, they sought ways to build a community, one such way was to rally behind who the community saw as a national hero, the man who "discovered" America and who happened to be Italian.

  • acw28

    acw28

    #33740723 - 1 week ago

    So not RWBY related, but I just watched the gen:LOCK preview RT put on YouTube, and damn does that series look good. Looks like 2019 is going to have a good start.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740725 - 1 week ago

    In reply to acw28r

    I saw it too and you can SEE how much they learned from RWBY and used for gen

  • FettucCR

    FettucCR

    #33740735 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    There *are* lots of killbots in Remnant. Several generations (two at least) in fact, which hints they're easy to replicate.


    Now, Penny is a complicated case. We don't know how she was made. And we know her death caused distress in a yet-nameless Atlesian scientist, who happens to look a bit like Dr. Light from Megaman. And we know Soul transfer can be achieved in Remnant via technology.


    Now, we can speculate two things: (1) since Penny can artificially generate Aura, and Aura is linked to one's soul, then she has to have something akin to a soul, whether it's artificial or not. My money is on the former. And (2) her job was to "save the world". We know Ironwood was directly involved in her creation, so she's probably a prototype weapon. Atlas could have been working in an Evangelion-like case of soul weaponizing.


    Man, the possibilities give me a headache.


    In reply to acw28

    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    In reply to JROY

    I always found it funny how you US people call it "Columbus day", since I'm pretty sure everywhere else is something like "Day of the Discovery of the Americas", and since Columbus never even got near North America.


  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740736 - 1 week ago

    In reply to FettucCR

    I was looking it up and that is because of the Immigrants from Italy they needed a rallying point and colombus is a minor folk hero due to his trip and it kind of spiraled from there from what I can see. 

  • BakedBrain

    BakedBrain FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33740738 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    If Penny takes part in the tournament, she definitely needs something that is interpreted by the scoreboards sensors as aura or she blows her cover.

    Did she ever get under attack in combat so that she would have needed aura to deflect (I did not check that).

    It is funny, that her companion is actually more robotlike than her.

    One thing pro free will, is that she blew cover towards ruby. Stopping the truck and blabbing. Unlikely that this was intentionally build into her mission parameters.

    But there are a lot of different interpretations of robots in science fiction and the multiple aspects do not exclude each other. so she could be sentient and backup capable.

    And you have a large range of possibilities if you let her reappear.

    Army of Pennies hijacked by Watts attacking.

    Encounter with the girl on which she was modeled

    Penny rebuild and started with backup.

    Another Penny build started anew.

    No more Penny.


    Thats five and I am stopping here. 


  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740739 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    The sensors are probably made by atlas you know the guys who made Penny...so chances are high making them skip the issue if its even an issue.

    She is stated to 100% have aura so she probably reads just fine.

    Aura when activated protects its users from damage so it would be odd if it didnt protect her when it does it for everyone else.


    As for the truck that was probably her calculating damage and response times to get the best results with least damage and injuries. 


    That assume there is an army which so far Penny was treated as unique.

    That assumes Penny was modeled on some one when so far there is no hint that is true.

    That assumes a backup is possible with Penny someone who has a soul and aura which may make that not possible

    Another Penny is possible if they know how they created her fully and it wasnt just that random huh that is odd that prefaces giant discoveries.

  • BakedBrain

    BakedBrain FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33740741 - 1 week ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Why I do not believe that this is a conspiracy storytelling environment.

    First set of villains is immediately revealed (Cinder, Torchwick, Neo, Mercury, Emerald)

    In a conspircacy environment, I would expect that the infiltration of the tournament would not have been revealed before the strike.

    Emerald uses/reveals her semblance without need in a match she can easily win without doing that. So that you know it, when they go for real.

    Cinder's infiltration and delivery of the virus is immediately revealed.

    Penny being a robot is revealed early.

    The virus infecting Ironwoods phone is immediately revealed.

    Lionheart being a mole is immediately revealed.


    Not hints, but direct in your face, sometimes reinforced like when Cinder says they have a new extension (presumably Ironwoods phone), for those who did not see the chess figure.


    Yes there are possibilities, but until now, no seriously stealthed stuff was activated.

    In a conspiracy environment, there would be a mole in the extended core team (them 8). Could still be coming, but I do not believe so. Yang will not whack Velvet in a dark corner when nobody is watching except us. I suspect that this will stay a low threat environment, as it would stir up a lot of people having their favorite character whacked and/or turned.


    But I would strongly suggest not to turn the back to Pyrrha if she came back seemingly unaltered.


    One thing there is Cinder says "It's certainly grander than Beacons" when they arrive at the vault. Which implies that she was there - and retrieved the relic. So either Ozpin overrates the protection of "his" home relic or the protection is conspiracy like, e.g. counterfeit.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740744 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    No it just means she was at the vault 

    nder: (to Vernal) Are you nervous, girl? The first Maiden in - why, I'm not sure anyone knows how many years - is about to open a vault. I would say it's quite an exciting time. Don't you feel honored?

    Vol5 vault of spring 


    This right here indicates that she hasn't retrieved the relic.

    They found the vault but haven't opened it . And considering cinder notes how different it is probably a fake vault.


    From my phone 

  • arklaynorth

    arklaynorth FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33740749 - 1 week ago

    In reply to FettucCR

    Last I checked, the Bahamas are part of North America.

  • acw28

    acw28

    #33740765 - 1 week ago

    In reply to arklaynorth

    Not continental, and Columbus went to South America afterwards.

  • arklaynorth

    arklaynorth FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33740767 - 1 week ago

    In reply to acw28

    I didn't say continental — I said they were part of North America — which they are — as are Haiti, Cuba & Bermuda — just to name a few.  I'm aware that Columbus went to South America afterwards —what bearing that has on this conversation, I really don't know.

  • BakedBrain

    BakedBrain FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33740836 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    A try at conspiracy and failed.

    I am going back to "in your face" and let you have the seven deeper dungeons.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740841 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    No not a "try" a IS a conspiracy just because its not how you think a conspiracy is suppose to be presented doesnt mean it isnt. There is many ways to present and handle a conspiracy and not all of them are the super cloak and dagger you think it is. 

    Sometimes its just a secret group trying to subvert the government and throw the world into chaos over objects and powers covered up by a second secret group trying to stop them who safe guards the world and governments from the plots and machinations of the first group and the powers they seek.


    And if by seven deeper dungeons you mean the basic presentation and dialogue of the show, plot, and story sure let us go with that.

    Have fun with "in your face" 

  • BakedBrain

    BakedBrain FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33740894 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Current "in your face" major faction count is 5 (Salem, Ozpin, Raven, Adam, Ghira). And conspiracy-faction-count should never be behind that.

    I also do not mean conspiracy story but conspiracy storytelling. Basically that means lying (through characters) and showing only what the protagonists can see. Positively no footage from Salem's war council.
    So Penny-conspiracy storytelling is a scientist lamenting Penny's demise because she was oh so unique, sentient and likeable ... while Penny serial number 1265 is passing quality control in the secret underground assembly line hitting and totally destroying 10/10 Ruby mockups. This of course you are not shown. You may get a cutback to that when the secret Atlas subfaction let's the Pennies loose, being not at all unique, sentient or likeable.
    Raven and Lion conspiracy would start the fight at the end of season 5 with a comfy 11:4 for the protagonists who are of course in for a nasty surprise when they get it in the back. And Raven would have played sister and the Lion would have simulated concern about all the MIAs ..


    In this storytelling the audience get's no lead of knowledge over the protagonists ... or if it is "fair" conspiracy storytelling the audience has to work for the lead, collecting hints and putting them together.


    In the fair conspiracy storytelling the tournament infiltration you would look like this:

    Cinders team arrives as just a team from Haven and befriends RWBY and JNPR. From the hack infiltration you get only the dead guards and a glimpse on computers. No signed chesspiece giveaway. In the preceding episode midways you might see Cinder leave with an in team love interest and a wink.

    When Emerald pulls her semblance on Pyrrha and Yang you get a total view of all three teams and Emerald has a concentrated look - but no closeups and definitely no use in preceding fights against hopelessly inferior opponents.

    Reveal only when they strike. Would be a shock for most of those who associated with these cute characters, Then another shipwreck because the cover ship for Cinder has to be developped to be credible.


    Now back to fair. If you set this up with unaltered RWBY season one, which implies a fun action show you are betraying your viewers. With the fake allegiance Cinder's team looks like excellent identification and shipping material. Yes I know, some do it anyway, but some like to pick from the protagonists only.


    By the way, I would not get my own hints, I have tunnelview on this.

    Setting up Vernal "meatshield" as the maiden, fully qualifies as conspiracy storytelling, although I saw not hints, but this may be my fault.


    Finally the dungeons, this is an exaggeration about the depth of the conspiracy. A mole is the first dungeon, already below "in your face" ground level. If he is a double agent, it's the second dungeon and so on. If it is the seventh  dungeon he most likely lost track and does not know his allegiance himselft, so an exaggeration.


  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740898 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    There is actually more you forgot Ironwood who is VERY much doing something on his own.


    Uhm again that is wrong that is just ONE way to tell a conspiracy you can also tell one by having people slowly unravel the age old deceptions like RWBY actually IS.

    You are narrowing it down in such a way that isnt the only way to tell a story I have read MANY a story that does conspiracy and its NOTHING like what you are trying to say.


    You just have a way you THINK conspiracy should be and it shows. But and here is the thing its not the only way to do a conspiracy.

    There is more then just the way you outline to have a conspiracy storytelling and RWBY is doing it.

    A good example is Final Fantasy Tactics which DOES have a conspiracy story multiple of them to be precise. You have the church, the Nobles, petty people trying to control the war, People reacting to all this not aware of the other plots, and then of course you have the REAL masterminds the Demons. 

    Tactics doesnt do ANYTHING you just tried to outline yet it has such a MASSIVE conspiracy plot line people need spreadsheets to keep up. You follow Ramza and his Merc band for most of it but you also get scenes from others giving insight into things and not just glimpses either but some deep lore. Some is also stuff Ramza ISNT aware of but we the audience is and Ramza doesnt find out till later very much like RWBY does. Same goes for FFXIV which also has conspiracy both good and bad going on and it does only some of what you said and often mixes it or just doesnt do it at all. A good example is the way you describe Fair is followed by the crystal brave plot but the asciens the biggest threat in the game is done like RWBY does it and they 100% are a conspiracy.


    RWBY despite what you think is a conspiracy show that doesnt mean it will stay one but so far each volume has dug up new info that radically changes what we think is going on.

    Vol 1 it was the organizied and driven crime  hinting something MORE was going on.

    Vol 2 saw that hint turn into a terrorist attack as well as give us more information on how BAD the world is. It let us know there is an organized threat against the world

    Vol 3 had the festival which showed us the power plays at work as well as introduced us to magic something we DIDNT know about at all.

    Vol 4 Gave us more knowledge such as the gods and relics and let us see for the first time the face of the enemy. Plus Ozpin coming back from the dead changing MANY things we thought we knew.

    Vol 5 saw another terrorist attack as well as a subversion of Ozpin's network it also let us see for the first time relics and gave us hints on more things we didnt know about IE revival.


    Now some conspiracy storys DO in fact do what you describe but its not universal there is countless ways to tell a story.

    Conspiracy is complex and there is many ways to handle it and present it heavily based on what you do and dont want out of the story. There is no set formula or way to go about it. If it was then it would become stale as you would be able to predict the story based on the formula.


    As for your explanation of the dungeons that is called being a double or triple agent. You know something we have already seen in the show as is.

    Leo was a traitor but one with no real loyalty to either side he was just trying to save his hide. We also have Ironwood who might be going Rogue based on what we saw in vol 4 vol 6 might show us if that is true or not due to Qrow sending a letter ahead from what I have heard from the Panel.

    We also have people like Raven who were part of the group then broke off going 100% rogue and causing trouble for EVERYONE.

    Then we have the clear brewing Civil war between the White Fang going to happen.


    Also as for your line about Leo and playing concern wouldnt have worked they knew he wasnt on the up and up. Because there is things in place for Ozpin's revival and leo is going off script making them aware things were wrong. Also no one would believe Raven being the sister role we saw that with vol 4 were Raven getting Qrow a drink was a suspicious sign.


    And this is ALL "in your face" by the way all of this has been directly said or spelled out in the show. 


    RWBY isnt a conspiracy on the level of Dan Brown or others like him but it is a conspiracy show and story telling.

  • BakedBrain

    BakedBrain FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33740900 - 1 week ago

    In reply to revanninja

    The point I am trying to make, is that until now, most major events were revealed to the viewer far in advance to the protagonists. This is one way of generating thrill. Because we know the nature of the threat we are wondering if, how and when the protagonists will get to know and counter it.

    As of Ironwood we know since episode 3/3 that he moved his forces without Ozpin's consent to Vale. Obvious question, did he form his own faction, or is it just a conflict within Ozpin's faction about course of action. Another question, what would he have done, if he did not (partially) loose control over his forces. Anyway, nobody will be surprised if Ironwood formed his own faction, he is introduced as not that much aligned.

    And it would be a change to the nature of the show, if the screenwriters started to feed false information, major events without forewarning etc. More Vernal, less Leo.

    If you show Salem's war council, I do not believe that it would be fair, to show just topics 1, 3, 4, 5, omitting 2 which is most important.


    The formula for storytelling has nothing to do with the content of the story. You have differnt levels of revealing. In your face signed chesspiece or circumstantial glimpse of computerroom. Show intruder unmasked or have the viewers go over several episodes collecting hints and excluding.

    Until now, it was mostly the first option.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33740903 - 1 week ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    Except they HAVE feed us false information and major events without warning.

    All of vol 1 and 2 with some of 3 was false information on how the world worked. Same goes for the Major events such as Ruby's silver eyes or Ozpin's revival.


    So already there is issues with your point as is.


    The formula and the content have EVERYTHING to do with each other. Some formulas dont work for certain content. While content can fit many formula's there are ones which are a BAD fit. 

    And what content plus formula you are working with controls the revealing. 


    And no its not been the first option its actually been both. Or did you miss the whole Salem and Ozpin having a dialogue over all the volumes ending in Vol 3 with the reveal of Salem?  Or how about Ozpin being an immortal something hinted all the way back in vol 1? Or Jaune's semblance on and off hinted since vol 1. 


    its MUCH more complex then you are giving it credit for.