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Origins of Salem: Theories and Speculations

Posts (26)

  • ChazzaWard

    ChazzaWard FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Theoretical Skeptic

    #33165761 - 2 years ago

    Right so at this point we know that Salem is the true main villain of the series, and I think its not really been given a dedicated platform as to WHO she actually is. I've already heard a few theories of who she might be but I think its worth giving it a platform so we can speculate properly


    Possible Origins of Salem:-


    -Winter maiden turned evil

    -A corrupted Summer Rose

    -A person who has existed as long as the wizard *cough* ozpin *cough*

    -Weiss' Mother??? (I heard this one but not a lot of reasoning was given, just worth adding anyway)



  • TheSnowMage

    TheSnowMage FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33166898 - 2 years ago

    I find it doubtful that Salem could be either Summer Rose or Weiss's mother, simply due to her name necessitating that she was born before the Great War, which occurred around 80 years before the story starts. Granted, either one of them being possessed by some sort of entity is a valid theory, but I still doubt that would be the case.


    As for Salem being the Winter Maiden, I find that doubtful as well, albeit for a rather silly reason. As the previous 3 volumes of RWBY were set in Autumn, we saw the Fall Maiden; since we're going into Winter now, we're extremely likely to deal with the Winter Maiden, and I doubt that Salem would reveal herself to such small-timers as Ruby and co are at the current.


    Salem being Ozpin's evil counterpart actually does have some merit to it, being that Ozpin's name is very clearly a reference to the Wizard of Oz (unless the writer's have denied that in something I haven't seen). Since the Wizard's main enemy was an evil Witch, that parallel makes sense.


    Now, as for Salem being a Schnee (not necessarily Weiss's mother), I think there's some merit to that idea as well, but only because of what Winter said to Weiss in Volume 3 about not using anger to power their Semblance's ability to summon, and I really only make that correlation due to my belief that Salem is worshiping something along the lines of a demon or dark god. Being able to summon an aspect of said being would go a long ways towards advancing her plans (which I won't theorize much here due to it not being the right place).

  • ChazzaWard

    ChazzaWard FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Theoretical Skeptic

    #33166903 - 2 years ago

    In reply to TheSnowMage


    although I agree that salem is unlikely Weiss' Mother or Summer, I'm not sure I understand the logic of the name. Why does the name constitute her age? although it became a tradition to name after colours it does not necessarily mean that they shall do so.


    so summoning is an art which must be made with control, else you may spawn a dark being is what you are saying?




  • TheSnowMage

    TheSnowMage FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33166938 - 2 years ago

    Traditions are near-universal within an area when applied to works of fiction. Whereas there will almost always be people rejecting traditions in our world, fictional worlds are much more likely to embrace those traditions entirely. That's pretty much the entirety of my logic behind that, however, so I'm afraid I don't have much more to offer this part of the discussion.


    As for the summoning, it is entirely possible that the nature of the being(s) summoned depends on the emotional stability and intent of the person summoning them; after all, one wouldn't have much time to enact an in-depth ritual in the middle of a heated conflict (though, that does bring up a good reason why Salem doesn't have to be a Schnee, assuming that non-Semblance summoning magicks exist within Remnant). If we look back to the fight between Qrow and Winter, for instance, Winter's summons (a flock of birds) did barely anything to him, and mostly just fluttered around him as a distraction; if we assume my theory about intent is correct, than that would imply that Winter doesn't like using her summons in a fight, likely for fear of accidentally summoning in a state of anger.

  • Astaluin

    Astaluin

    #33169548 - 2 years ago

    Crow says that his team was team STRC

    He must have been C

    Yang's mum was R

    Ruby's dad was T

    That means there was someone who's name began with s

    It could be Salem, and that would mean that Crow, Yang's mum and dad, and Salem were all on one team

    It's possible, but that also means there must have been some horrible accident or thing that Salem did or had done to her, which made her evil

    I still don't get how she's related to Ozpin though

    They could have been siblings I guess....

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33169568 - 2 years ago

    In reply to Astaluin

    ????

    We actually know the answers to this

    First its STRQ said as Stark

    Qrow is spelled with a Q not a C but is said the same way as Crow

    As for who it is

    Summer

    Tai

    Raven

    Qrow


    Summer is Ruby's mother and she caught Tai after Raven left


    Ozpin and Salem's connection is unknown outside of the fact Salem speaks like they have been doing this for AWHILE.

  • ChazzaWard

    ChazzaWard FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Theoretical Skeptic

    #33169615 - 2 years ago

    In reply to Astaluin


    I mean... If we disregard half of what we already know it COULD work..

  • TheSnowMage

    TheSnowMage FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33171443 - 2 years ago

    I had not considered the angle you are presenting, MEK. It would appear that, if my theory of an extra being that exists on a level beyond humanity is correct, there would be two such beings: one of Dust, that created Humanity; and one of Shadow, that created the Grimm.


    No, let me correct myself: there would be at least two such beings. The source of the Silver Eyed Warriors would not necessarily be attributed to either being, although it quite firmly feels like it belongs to the one that is backed by Dust. Furthermore, it would support the "Light versus Dark" motif that seems to be building itself into a defining theme of RWBY.


    Multiple beings, huh?... Whether it be a God or a Demon, odds are Salem has a Backer. Giving Ruby a Backer, the equal and opposite to Salem's, would be a considerable balancing factor, especially since those on the side of Light are more likely to sacrifice themselves entirely than those on the side of Dark (not using those as parallels for good and evil in this instance, by the way).And then there's still the Wizard, the origin of the Maiden powers, to factor into this too... A third Backer seems to be more and more likely, now that I think about it.


    Of course, this is going somewhat off the main topic for this thread. Considering that I believe Salem to be supporting an entity beyond the realm of human causality, it is entirely possible that Salem's goal is the utter destruction of the world. Hmm, that brings something to mind... what happened to the moon, and could it be related? Is that even the moon, or is Remnant its moon? If so, what happened to the former denizens of that world?...


    Bah, I went off topic again. Apologies!


    So, back to Salem's potential plans. Acquiring a Maiden under her beck and call would allow her to reveal the existence of the Maidens and give a rather huge target for them to attack; if she chose the time and place that the ensuing battle would take place, she would enable a good many civilians to be caught in the crossfire. Rumors would spread slowly, due to the lack of the CCT, but they would get around eventually and be distorted by the number of people it would take to spread them. Panic would spread, and Humanity would turn against each other entirely.


    That may have been Salem's original plan, but this current arc, a lack of communication and the threat of war between Atlas and Vale... well, a good plan succeeds even when it fails, after all. Salem may have accomplished some of her initial goals, even if her plan didn't proceed entirely as she thought it would...

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33173588 - 2 years ago

    In reply to MEK1724

    It may not need to feed but still have the instinct. If Salem did use Bears as the base for Ursa then its possible its just Vestigial from the original base.

    That said the Griffin did eat Roman so who knows if Grimm need to eat or not there is a LOT about them we dont know.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33173604 - 2 years ago

    In reply to MEK1724

    Ah love the fact even Salem knows how Port works.

    ...wait maybe THAT is why she is evil she had to sit through Port's classes for too long! It all makes sense.


    I wonder if Grimm are actually the evil inside humans made real.

    Some have thought maybe Dust is human souls I currently dont see any evidence for that but grimm might have been created from humans in the past....just speculating here no evidence saying ya or nay on that.

  • l0ne3lyw1tch

    l0ne3lyw1tch FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33180319 - 2 years ago

    In reply to ChazzaWard


    "so summoning is an art which must be made with control, else you may spawn a dark being is what you are saying?"

    I really like this. Don't know why, but this is a beautiful statement.

    Just throwing a bunch of thoughts out here...

    Salem, could be hinting at perhaps Salem witch trials.

    Song sacrifice

    "all your faith in ancient ways, Leaves you trapped inside a maze, take the lives of those you need, sow the death and reap the seed"(sacrifice RWBY). Take the lives of those you need---Penny, Amber, Pyrrha, Roman, Maybe Ozpin (fate unknown). Summer Rose.


    Salem could be the witch of the west, who is wanting to expose Ozpin. Salem believes Ozpin to be arrogant, as stated by Cinder in volume 3 episode 11. She definitely wants to exploit the faults of man in remnant.

    Both Ozpin and Salem are knowledgeable on the history of remnant.

    Semblance, Aura, dust, Grimm, Huntsmen/Huntresses, 4 guardians, 4 seasons, 4 members per team, 4 kingdoms, Character names are based on color, excluding the older generation. War about individualism itself. Ozpin's speech in Volume 1 could be what labels him as arrogant. before the teams are made in volume 1 i believe epsiode 3.

  • Rks-Kogiro

    Rks-Kogiro

    #33219599 - 2 years ago

    In reply to MEK1724


    Salem not creating the Grimm is also supported by her saying the Grimm

    were "an inevitable darkness" . If she created them then they weren't

    really inevitable. Especially if she only created them for that reason. A

    naturally occurring creature which had to kill humans to survive, would

    be inevitable.



    If im not mistaken, it was said that grimm are atracted by negative energy, and the Grimm dragon (aka kevin) summoned some grimm from particles of his body, maybe they are born in a kind of (super) natural process, and "man being born from dust", and dust, in specifical the natural found, generate elemental energy; we could make a relation to nature and grimm being born by man negativity, which makes then inevitable.
    In a very simple way, if grimm kill humans, more negative energy is generated, more grim are born or they get stronger (to be honest i think both) if man fight grimm, negative energy is made, if man fight each other, much more energy is made.

    I think its interesting to mention that the schnee have the semblance to summon creatures that really remember grimm, and as winter said, that the summoning couldnt be done with bad emotions, we could speculate that Salem was one of the first Schnee, and that would relate to her knowledge about dust and its origins too, and what can happen with the abuse of dust use.

    And about her plan, for me, with what i have understood, she wants to split man apart to generate more negative energy to give power to grimm, and why she want to give power to grimm? because she wants to controll man to avoid the (maybe) problem man can cause with the exploration of dust.

    Just remembering this is purely speculation.
    So please, correct me if im mistaken and ask me if i didnt was clear enough.






  • Bumblebee4life

    Bumblebee4life

    #33248754 - 2 years ago

    I think that Salem might have s force behind her as well.

  • drpainkiller

    drpainkiller FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33248782 - 2 years ago

    I believe Salem isn't a person but a mantle that has to be taken by someone in order to keep the Grimm in one hive mind, there must always be a Salem and an ozpin, its heaven vs hell, I believe the current Salem is from around ozpins previous life when he granted the maidens their power, also I believe summer rose is Salem purely because silver eyes warriors are the only ones who can contain that amount of power that having the title of Salem can do to remmeneant.

  • Bumblebee4life

    Bumblebee4life

    #33248795 - 2 years ago

    In reply to DrPainKiller

    Perhaps Salem is not summers soul but her body

  • sthom0202

    sthom0202

    #33249034 - 2 years ago

    Regarding the creation/existence of Grimm. This is just my personal understanding, but I believe Grimm to be collections of negative energy. I'm pretty sure something like this was stated in one of the mini-episodes too. Basically, Grimm arise due to the negative emotions/intentions of human beings, and are in turn attracted to that energy. Which is why Cinder made the tournament such a disaster - all of the fear, anxiety and anger generated by the audience and concentrated in a single area was simply too big of a draw for the Grimm to ignore, even if they usually avoid 'dangerous' human protected areas.


    My personal theory about what Grimm actually are is that they are collections of energy and dust. Here is a breakdown of how I think it works:

    1. Human and faunus emotional energy is 'leaked' or 'released' into the general atmosphere. Think 'pollution'.

    2. Released energy gathers with like energy, creating large pockets of negative energy (positive energy either having counterpoint pockets or being utilized by humans/faunus naturally)

    3. Dust is collected in these pockets, and through an unknown process, grants 'life' to this collection of energy. This 'life', however, is not like human life having arose from a different process. Rather than have both good and bad attributes such as humans or faunus, they are solely reflections of the energy which gathered to create them. This is why they do not have to eat - they are dependent on the source of their energy, negative human emotion, not on physical substance.


    From this point of view, I do not think that Salem is responsible for creating Grimm as a whole. However, I do see her being capable of manipulating the process to create them to control their size and attributes. If she can, for example, gather more negative energy than would naturally do so on its own or influence the amount of dust collected, in theory she could create her own version of Grimm. This would also explain how and why she (and Cinder by association) can interact with and control Grimm. They would like recognize her as one of them, while at the same time being manipulated by her ability to funnel and/or control the energy/dust they are created from and need to survive. As to her actual origins though...still working on it!


    Edit: Looking back on this, I think semblances might actually be manifestations of the positive energy created by each person. The energy is created by the individuals positive emotions/intentions and mixes with the dust around/inside of that person to create a unique ability. This would explain many things, such as where positive energy goes, but also why most people have a unique semblance and yet some family groups have shared semblances. The Schnee's for example, might either share such similar personalities/values and/or share genetic dust make-up that they typically have the same semblance. Also, by this theory, those with only negative emotions would be capable of producing dark semblances. Such as Salem's ability to only gather/control negative energy.

  • RayD2Kill

    RayD2Kill FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Trucizny

    #33277583 - 2 years ago

    Salem=Summer Rose Theory

    There was a theory made by jactheonemanband saying that there might a Lord Grimm and that it's power might be similar to the seasonal maidens magic and that if he was killed his magic can be transferred to the last person he saw or someone random in the world. So what I am saying here is that the Lord Grimm's magic is dark magic and the way it can be transferred is similar to the seasonal maidens and blah blah blah, but he also has a theory how the present Lord Grimm could also be Summer Rose. I don't want to go through it so I will just give you a link to his theory up top. Also I am not sure who Salem truly is so I am not going to stick to any theories at this time I just find all the theories interesting so I want to share them and see what you guys think. Though I got to admit I wouldn't be surprised if Salem was the original winter maiden but there is no concrete evidence.



  • RexFrost

    RexFrost FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold The King of Cool

    #33277980 - 2 years ago

    In reply to Bumblebee4life

    That is likely. One popular floating around is that there exists a Lord or Queen Grimm that controls all the lesser Grimm. Ozpin sent Summer to kill this High Grimm on her last mission, but before she could land the final killing blow, High Grimm pulled a Master Xehanort & possessed Summer's body. I know it seems unlikely, but it's possible.


    By the way, here's a link to all the info on Master Xehanort, in case you were wondering who he is:

    http://www.khwiki.com/Xehanort

  • The-Batman-Who-Laughs

    The-Batman-Who-Laughs

    #33277988 - 2 years ago

    In reply to RexFrost

    I was thinking the Dragon Grimm was a Lord Grimm and if there were 3 others

    like it at each of the kingdoms, like in Zelda Majora's Mask. They might be

    pieces of a massive Chthule like Grimm, and Salem might be trying to put

    it back together

  • Bumblebee4life

    Bumblebee4life

    #33278034 - 2 years ago

    In reply to RexFrost

    My theory is that Summer's soul I still out there but is inhabiting a suit of armor kind of like Alphonse.

  • Rks-Kogiro

    Rks-Kogiro

    #33278075 - 2 years ago

    In reply to RexFrost

    Terra feelings, maybe Summer's Essence could be in a gun, like Terra's on his armor.

  • j03l3863

    j03l3863 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold \\--;;;------->

    #33337608 - 2 years ago

    Physical characteristics of Salem seem to point to something infecting /taking over her.  The black vein like marks on her arms and face, the black gem in the middle of her forehead and her white ghost like skin.  Summer's body could be a vessel, Yang only states the she went on a mission and never came back...leaving it open for speculation.  Purposely?


    Salem also refers to these beasts as the "creatures OF Grimm", but what is Grimm then?  The people of Remnant used the term Grimm for short and this has made it into common vernacular now.  


    The WOR map shows a dragon continent breaking away from the lower continent and a silhouette of Ruby to the right.  Maybe a foretelling of events to come?

  • Vivamort

    Vivamort FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33337939 - 2 years ago

    Here is what I think, there is some basis for it, but I would still classify it as crackpot as far as theories go.


    Salem is Remnant, as in the actual planet.  Humans (Faunus too probably) are an infection that is trying to spread itself across the land.  Grimm are the immune system trying to get rid of the infection.


    I have more about what I think the small clues we have heard mean about Salem and her relation to Ozpin and to the maidens and such, but above is my Salem Origin theory.  She is the manifestation of the planet's immune system.

  • jtovs498

    jtovs498

    #33719656 - 6 months ago

    In what is arguably Salem's theme, "Lusus Naturae" one line says,"They call me sick, obsessed, a madman with no proof," as well as, "when evolution fails, science will prevail" (I'm sure there are other such lines but that;s what I could remember form the top of my head) So maybe, Salem is the Bertron (look him up in DC comics) of Remnant, and she experimented on the creatures of Grimm, being allowed to do this because she could be the daughter of one of the brother gods (because remember, the Grimm's origins were said to be a creation of the younger brother god); and while her intents were honourable at first, something happened (maybe a Grimm-borne virus or a species of Grimm) and she was corrupted and essentially turned into a Grimm-lady who conducted further experiments for evil and became their master. This would explain the whole, "she's as old as Remnant itself" thing, and why she has as much respect for Arthur Watts, an Atlesian doctor/scientist. Let me know what you guys think.

  • RexFrost

    RexFrost FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold The King of Cool

    #33719765 - 6 months ago

    In reply to jtovs498

    Actually, Lusus Naturae is the theme music for Dr. Merlot, the main villain from the video game RWBY: Grimm Eclipse. It describes how he's a mad scientist with an obsession with the Grimm & how he can improve them through his own twisted science. Nice theory, though.