So something that's been on many forums is the debate of characters who have apparently been killed off making an eventual return in the show, especially Pyrrha Nikos. So I thought I'd start a thread discussing the topic of the resurrection in RWBY. Now first off this isn't meant for any specific character or to advocate that any will in fact return it's just to discuss the idea of any character coming back and ways within the RWBYverse it could happen and reasons story wise why any character would come back. So yeah........get discussing.
Resurrection in RWBY
#33187498 - 3 years ago
I believe Penny will come back as a copy of herself. My reason for believing this was when Penny told Ruby that she had a plan to stay in Beacon. It could be possible that before her fight with Pyrrha; Penny may have backed-up herself to possibly one of the Atlesian Knights and control them or even on some sort of database like Cinder's virus. It could also be possible that she now works like Church from Red Vs Blue and acts as an AI.
Either way I think considering we knew Penny had a plan and that she is in fact a robot; we can infer it is likely for her to return. While not particular being resurrected it is possible that she can return.
#33187691 - 3 years ago
Ok, contrary to popular belief, resurrection is a plot element that CAN be written well. Those of us who think Pyrrha's going to come back aren't asking for a Dragonball wish-type revival, and we never were asking for that. Funny thing is, the original set of Dragonballs were a GOOD example of a tool of revival, in that they had a one-revival-per-person limit, and at the time of Dragonball, they were extremely hard to find, AND had a recharge time of one YEAR. It was only when they got Dende to customize a new set that they removed the revival restriction (and gave themselves another wish per use on top of that!), and death truly became cheap in that series. That was the whole point of THE ENTIRE NAMEK ARC: to find a new set of Dragonballs that might be able to do what they knew theirs couldn't.
Another well-written tool of revival is the Lazarus Pit from DC Comics. Its main function is to provide Ra's al Ghul with his longevity, but it comes at serious mental instability for a time. The most notable examples of that drawback rearing its head long-term was when it was used to bring Jason Todd and Nora Fries (in recent continuities) back from the dead. Both were permanently driven insane from the Pit.
I get that resurrection is something that can easily be written BADLY, and we do have a few recent examples of it. The first I mentioned earlier (Dende's Dragonballs). Another is Orihime Inoue's powers from Bleach. Once that was used to revive Menoly from having her everything from the waist up vaporized, death became cheap. The only thing limiting that is her own willingness to use it, just as Ra's would limit the use of the Lazarus Pit. Apacci, one of Harribel's Fraccion, had to BEG HER to heal Harribel.
#33187719 - 3 years ago
I'm not opposed to the idea of resurrection in the series. On the contrary, I hope it is introduced. However, I do think it is an element which is best used sparingly and for a well-defined purpose. Rooster Teeth shouldn't just bring back characters based off popular demand. There needs to be a reason for giving a character a second chance. Which is why I remain hopeful that a few of our fallen idols will be making a comeback! That being said, I think the significance of death needs to be respected. One, maybe two resurrections? Fine. Any more than that and the loss of a character will be far less devastating.
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33187734 - 3 years ago
I agree. Penny as a robot is a unique case and allows her to comeback far more easily then others. That said I dont think Pyrrha really died I think they made it LOOK like she did and she will come back as a brainwashed puppet.
But revivals can work so long as they have 1 of 3 requirements on it.
1. That it is a unique situation or character that creates the revival
2. Its a ONE time only thing either because of an item that is destroyed or because there is a limit on how they do it.
3. The character doesnt come back with no issues. Either scars or mental issues from it.
With 1 of those 3 things you make it so revival isnt cheap or easy.
Shadowforbiden The Violet Wraith
#33188195 - 3 years ago
I can agree that Penny is the most likely to go through a revival process but I doubt it is through an AI transfer, as the show states Penny is the first and mostly like only prototype robot that can create an aura most likely implying that her program is hardwired to her unit and cant be transferred without complications
#33188696 - 3 years ago
I look at Penny this way: if it's not the same personality when she comes back, that raises ethical question as to how Atlas developed the technology, doesn't it? Do they have their own Pennyquarium underneath HQ? Or did they get the soul from a donor? Or was it a WILLING donor....? If it is the same personality, then all that means is that Atlas found a way to synthetically generate Aura, which is still ground-breaking in and of itself.
#33189065 - 3 years ago
Personally, I think reviving dead character's doesn't HAVE to be done poorly, It's all in the execution.
In RWBY, not only is the soul proven to exist - It's physical manifestation can be measured by your F@#king Smartphone.
and between the introduction both the concept's of "Outright Magic", and the Idea that Aura (again, the physical manifestation of the soul) as something that can be captured, contained, and transferred using Technology - the idea isn't exactly all that far fetched.
now you just need to explain why it's not used often.
My take on it is that, while possible through the use of magic by one of the Maidens (there's 3 unaccounted for so far), the process has an extremely low chance of survival.
Death is an extremely traumatic experience - the human brain isn't really designed to process what it's like to die - but since you DIE, you don't actually HAVE to process it.,
Being brought back to life, on the other hand, requires the mind to actually come to terms with it - which is just as horrific of an experience, but it lasts for hours while the mind tries to come to grips with it - and most people simply don't survive. they suffer in agony for hours, before their mind just gives out.
put in practice, bringing someone back from the dead, mostly likely just means condemning them to a second, far more agonizing death. which is why it's almost never done, and would require an extermely good reason for doing so.
#33189104 - 3 years ago
In reply to TheUltraElite Hey. I was told that Monty Oum was known for making good love pairing. Arkos is a good pairing. Monty wouldn't have plan to make a good pairing just to throw it away like a piece of garbage. Jen Brown's tweets didn't say that Pyrrha was dead. In fact it was told that Jen doesn't even know what happens behind the scenes. Plus Even RT didn't even confirm that Pyrrha's gone. So there is hope.
#33189180 - 3 years ago
I personally think that maybe Penny could be brought back easily, just put into a new body. After all, she's a soul in a robotic body, not a robot with an AI-OS (artificial intelligence operating system). At least, that's what I heard. Anyways, if someone went back to the Arena (or if it fell to the ground), Penny's components might still be there, so perhaps with the level of engineering Atlas seems to put into all of their military tech to make it so durable, you could recover imoprtant components, collect Penny's soul module, and put it in a new body unit.
I've talked about this quite a few times here on the forum (Nick, I know you and many others are probably sick of me badgering about it so many times), but I was thinking it would be interesting if someone close to Pyrrha,someone who had access to the vault and had a semblance which would allow them to (in a way) bottle up someone's loose, free-floating soul to put it all together and put her soul into a new body using the tech in the Vault. I'm thinking it could take the span of a couple of episodes, where the audience learns more about these characters' pasts, and even Pyrrha begins to ask if the resurrection is worth it or morally acceptable. If you want me to send you some of the dialogue for the fanfic I worked on for this and a little bit of backstory, let me know.
#33189264 - 3 years ago
While Penny was a robot, we don't know enough about how she was made. The body can be rebuilt, but if the part of her that makes the Aura can't, she's sadly dead for good. I think that the machine that allows them to transfer Aura is part of how she came to be, like she was a test subject or something. I mean, it's hard to believe Ironwood would try to use it on a Maiden without knowing it'd work. As for Pyrrha, unless Salem has the ability to revive dead people and tries to weaponize her, I don't think we'll see her again outside flashbacks and dreams.
Another limit to the Lazarus Pit that made it a good example of a resurrection device is that you could only use each one once, so you could come back a set number of times and only if you knew where all the pits were. Good examples by the way.
#33189937 - 3 years ago
And that is a good drawback to have on any tool of resurrection: the mental trauma on the one being revived, especially if they remember HOW they died, not just the experience of having died. Is putting the target of the revival worth putting them through all that mental hell?
Ultimately, every theory brought up on how any one character could be brought back right now are made on the assumption that one or more other sub-theories are also correct. The only one that that might not apply to is Roman. The guy still had a near-full Aura (I don't recall him getting hit once on the flagship), he got swallowed whole (meaning that he is still fully functional as a being in that moment, unless the innards of a Grimm are an auto-kill), he still had Melodic Cudgel, and the ship didn't explode in a brilliant fireball or anything like that. I would not be surprised if he was able to pull of a Hannibal Chau type escape (Or Boba Fett from the Sarlacc for those who have read Dark Empire).
As for Penny, it's not a matter of "if", it's "when" to the audience, and Rooster Teeth only have themselves to blame for that, thanks to their track record of being unable to keep an AI character down in RvB. I'm not trying to equate the two situations as they are entirely separate works, but it's simply what the audience expects because Penny's a robot. For me, it's more about what personality she'll have if she comes back, because that will determine any implications I'll have about the technology used to develop Penny in the first place. Specifically, how they developed her ability to Generate an Aura, which is ground-breaking for Atlas in and of itself. Remember, Pyrrha's the one that gives the info-dump on what Aura is, and the very first line, "Aura is the manifestation of our souls" is just a very fancy way of saying "Aura = Soul", which is only reinforced by a later line, "By bearing your soul outward as a force, you can deflect harm." If Penny's personality is entirely AI (and for all we know, it's been backed up back in Atlas), then that just means that Atlas has found a way to artificially create a soul. Again, groundbreaking in and of itself, but if the personality in the Penny chassis is different, then that raises ethical questions about how Atlas developed the Aura generation. Questions like "Did they have a donor, and if so, were they a willing one?" Delving deeper into the technology behind Penny's existence is a great chance to answer those questions, and it looks likely that they will do so. Sorry I had to repeat one or more earlier posts on my thoughts on Penny, but I felt the explanation would be relevant here as well. And yes, it's certainly not that far of a stretch to think that the apparatus Ozpin was going to use to transfer Amber's Aura into Pyrrha might be related to Penny's development, something only reinforced with Ironwood's explanation of the....strides Atlas has made in their scientific research into Aura, as well as confirming that the machinery Ozpin currently has is Atlesian tech.
Now, as for Pyrrha....I won't be going into the theories has to how she could come back, but moreso the sub-theories that have to be assumed correct for any of them to work, since as of right now, her revival is the most reliant on those sub-theories. The most prominent of those is the idea that Jaune still has a sliver of Pyrrha's soul in himself from when she unlocked his Aura with her own. I can actually see this one having merit. Going back to the Aura Transfer apparatus, one of the risks involved in Pyrrha going through that process was that of personality contamination, since what the machine is essentially doing is removing Amber's soul and forcing it into Pyrrha's body, and they do confirm that the Maiden powers are bound to one's Aura, thus bound to the current Maiden's soul. Simply put, you can add the factor of one's personal identity to the equation I put forth earlier, making it "Aura = Soul = Personal Identity", since if that weren't true, they wouldn't even be considering it as a possible side effect of the transfer. That equivalency is further reinforced by Pyrrha's line of Grimm lacking souls and being "manifestations of anonymity". Basically, personal identity is more of a metaphysical thing in this setting than a biological one, since while powerful Grimm DO gain an intelligence, they still don't have souls. But since what they ARE sure of is that the transfer of Amber's AURA will work (even if they aren't sure if they can transfer the Maiden power this way), the above equation becomes a critical factor.
Thematically, the risk to Pyrrha's personal identity as a result of the transfer of Aura was a call back to the line Blake used to describe the book she was reading: two souls fighting over one body. However....we've already seen an example of one person transferring Aura to someone else, albeit in an in-series established natural method to unlock the aura of the person receiving the transfer, haven't we...? And at no other point does the concept of Aura transfer between two people come up again until Pyrrha is shown Amber. And I have to wonder, Jaune did put up a rather good showing in helping to kill the Deathstalker during initiation, despite not having his Aura unlocked until a short time before, and having not attended a combat school until Beacon (when he revealed that he faked his transcripts). There's also the possibility that what Pyrrha did for Jaune is not the only way to unlock a person's Aura, just the only way shown so far. There may be more mundane ways one gains their Aura (as through intense training and the like). However, even if it IS the only way to unlock a person's Aura, it is still effectively two souls touching each other, one feeding the other to allow the other to utilize their own, which implies that this would be a rather intimate act, not normally done between strangers. Simply put, what Pyrrha did might have unknowingly contaminated Jaune's soul with hers, just in a way that allows the two to co-exist. She is also visibly exhausted by it, which means that what Aura she used, she did NOT get back, having to recharge it normally.
While I can only speculate on how they would use this to give Pyrrha back her soul, assuming they somehow manage to obtain an organic body to house it in, I do think at least this idea has legitimate merit.
JROY Gaurdian Lvl.3
#33190007 - 3 years ago
In my opinion one of the best ways they could pull off a Pyrrha revival is as a corrupt minion of Salem. Not only would she make a intimidating villain as well as have a great villain design but it would give her reason story wise to return. First of all the whole idea of a friend turning sides (intentionally or not) especially someone as powerful as Pyrrha would be very dramatic especially for Jaune. Also it would make Jaune's journey to get stronger more interesting and more investing if the end goal was to defeat and possibly save Pyrrha.
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33227007 - 3 years ago
While you dont, you have to be careful with them.
It HURTS them to know you have memories that they dont especially if they have only partial memory loss. They can feel the gap.
So while if Penny comes back like this she isnt a different person kid gloves do need to be used.
I worked in a retirement home when i was fresh out of Highschool. I saw this and I also saw how much it hurt the people who did have their memories.
revanninja One who is judged by the
#33227146 - 3 years ago
Yes and no it depends on how much of the memory is gone.
Collectively they arent even when they lose the memory they still act in the way the person does normally unless the memory lose is HOW to act in a situation. It can be tricky.
But that is with a biological brain where even if the nerves are damaged or being unused they are still there with a computer its not that the memory isnt active but rather it doesnt even exist.
If Penny comes back from a backed up save of herself it would be less like memory loss and more like that person at that time got picked up and dropped in.
That is the issue with the backed up save because strictly speaking she IS a different person not one missing memories but someone who NEVER had those memories in the first place.