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Volume 6 Wants And Theories

Posts (1816)

  • LordBeefDip

    LordBeefDip FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33734453 - 8 months ago

    Jumping in randomly,  I kind of agree that we don't know the full story,  and there are people willing to lie and/or mislead people into believing a certain narrative. 


    I have made criticism that didn't get me blocked even by Miles or Kerry,  and I've seen plenty more that was worse than mine that didn't result in an instant block. 


    I know that there is a section of the RWBY fandom that is extremely toxic ( Gonna name drop Soarel here as an example.) , and have a habit of not only using personal attacks and threats,  but bringing up Monty as a weapon and using his death as a prop. The statements like "They are deliberately going against Monty's wishes" or "Monty would be rolling in his grave if he knew what they had done to his show", and that isn't even the worst.  And from experience,  those sorts of people aren't always honest, and will lie and distort events to make themselves look like victims.  


    Not saying that is what happened,  but it is a possibility that should be taken into consideration.  That some of these people claiming to essentially be victims might not always be honest actors,  and might be omitting some essential facts. 

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734454 - 8 months ago


    In reply to WrightKnight

    Not an issue now that I have cooled my head a little.

  • user-572df514355fe

    user-572df514355fe

    #33734455 - 8 months ago

    Good grief. -_-

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734462 - 8 months ago

    There's still my other question that has been left unanswered: if screenshots are unreliable because they can be faked, then what recourse is left for those who claim that they've been banned, and might have the evidence to back that up?  What can they do?

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734463 - 8 months ago

    In reply to LordBeefDip

    Unfortunately, both sides have propped up Monty's corpse as a defense.  Dear fucking GAWD, the number of times that I had to see the "it was what Monty wanted" in regards to Pyrrha's death.  Never bothered to ask if what he did was effective or not, they just wallowed in the authority appeal and called it a day.  Problem is, Rooster Teeth and those studio photos with Monty setting up the death scene are actually them doing the same thing.  To a degree, that was them trying to convince us to accept it because Monty wanted to do it that way.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734474 - 8 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Except the issue with Monty is that with RT it probably is TRUE and there is the rub. The people using monty dont know him and didnt work with him. RT did.

    They were also his co workers with his notes and developing the ideas of the series.


    It is a VERY different situation when RT speaks of what Monty was designing and working towards then what complete strangers are saying


    And that is something to always keep in mind with it.


    In reply to WrightKnight

    Well that depends on stuff.

    So if you can link the conversation that shows WHY you got banned. So for example like how I linked the pages showing me staying out, showing not just a screenshot but also the flow of the conversation that is MUCH harder to fake as it can have notes and other things. So Screenshot PLUS a link to the conversation or message lines backs up your story FAR better then anything else.

    This is generally the best way to not just screenshot but also LINK to other people.


    The other thing is History. Who you are and your history makes things more clear. So for example take the Author of HalkO and a troll poster that got banned from the HalkO thread. The troll poster was well known for spouting off BS at the drop of the hat they couldnt back up and generally being insulting. The author had that poster Banned after MONTHS of this. So if that Troll poster tried to say he was banned for speaking Ill of HalkO every single one of the people who are in the thread KNOW that is a lie. While if the author said hey I banned the Troll because he would not stop after I asked him to then we would go okay that makes sense. Because we have SEEN the long standing behavior and general disdain for what the author was writing.


    A lot of this depends heavily on what is being argued by who and on what platform and what about.

    In reply to arklaynorth

    Uhm I always thought you were based on things.

    So if you are not my apologies.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734509 - 8 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    Just because RT worked with Monty does not make it any less of an appeal to authority.  Just because a writer does a thing doesn't mean they are effective at doing that thing.  That's why it a logical fallacy.  But, because RT was doing it, the fans thought is was OK to do it themselves.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734522 - 8 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    No that isnt a logical fallacy because they are the origin and SOURCE of RWBY. 

    That is Word of God.


    While its effective or not effective is a different story in the subject we are discussing When it comes to RWBY RT isnt appeal to authority it IS the authority. 


    So when RT speaks about RWBY it is not the Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Authority because it is not appealing it 100% is the authority on the subject. They created it designed it produced it and so on. 


    And since Monty Worked for RT and was creating RWBY on their behest using their tools resources and people when they speak on what Monty was trying to do it again is not appeal to authority it is an informed and fully source of all things RWBY speaking.


    This is also why Barb when she says she likes BB makes it clear she isnt speaking as RT but rather as the person Barbara.


    So no Miles and Kerry when speaking on what Monty was trying to do are not using Appeal to Authority Fallacy they are instead speaking as the ACTUAL authority on the subject.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734525 - 8 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    The issue is not that they are speaking as the authority, the issue is that we should accept what they did without question BECAUSE they are the authority.  The issue is that RT themselves were saying "Monty wanted it this way, so you should accept it".  They can say it was how Monty wanted it all they want, them saying it doesn't say anything about how effective or ineffective it was.  And as we've gone over the last two years, we can definitely say that it was ineffective.  Them saying that doesn't change that.  THAT is what an appeal to the authority is.  And I will, in this singular case, always respond with "What Monty Oum wanted was ineffective, and here's why."

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734527 - 8 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    I am sorry but NO.


    You are arguing how effective it was which is different from appeal to authority. You are tying them together when they are NOT together.

    They CAN say here is what Monty wanted and also continue to write THEIR story as they see fit based on that.


    WE can say no we dont agree it was an effective use. But that doesnt change what happened or what IS. 


    So no your understanding of Appeal to Authority is flawed as you are trying to say they the actual authority are using that which 100% doesnt work. Appeal to authority is based on using the idea the Authority on the subject agrees with something and thus we should accept it.


    Instead this is the ACTUAL authority saying this and telling us what happened and what was done.

    Its not even an appeal.

    Especially because they arent trying to say just accept it and dont say anything they were SPECIFICALLY responding to people saying they were going off script from Monty.


    So no you are 100% using the Fallacy wrong and equating it when its not.


    Effectiveness of their choices is something that can be argued but your use of appeal is wrong both in its understanding in regards to RWBY and its USE by RWBY.

  • LordBeefDip

    LordBeefDip FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33734580 - 8 months ago

    And RT doing that isn't exactly good either.


    Of course there is a clear difference between "This is how Monty wanted it" and "Monty would be rolling in his grave, you ruined his show", "It's good he didn't live to see how his work was bastardized".


    The first statement would be far less offensive and using him as a prop.


    Secondly,  context is again important. Because there were a few who had problems with her death,  and after the Shane controversy,  shit really hit the fan. So it begs the question on whether it was RT playing defense and trying to point out that they indeed were respecting Monty's wishes , or if they were using the idea that it was his idea to shutdown criticism. Because if it's the former, it really isn't worth getting riled up over,  in the second, yes they are being dickheads. 


    Same thing with fans defending it. If they are stating it as a response to the perception the M&K altered his plans, it again is far less egregious than them trying to simply shut down dissenting voices. Though to be honest,  I still find the people telling M&K that they should have died instead,  and those using his death as a prop to attack his friends and colleagues as far more offensive than RT or RT fans being dicks to justify a plot point. That isn't saying, assuming it's true,  that them using Monty's posthumous wishes isn't gross, but it comes across as less odious and malicious than how some of the toxic fans on the other side are.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734581 - 8 months ago

    In reply to LordBeefDip

    As far as I am aware its been heavily RT responding to people asking questions. It has gotten to the point they are starting to make it clear the constant Monty questions are getting to them from the last set of Panels.

    I dont think I havent seen a panel set where Monty hasnt been brought up in some way.

    And I am also pretty sure Afterbuzz for the Vol 3 Finale asked them about how much was planned.


    I think outside of acknowledging that they are trying to follow the ideas and concepts Monty left behind in his notes and other materials they would prefer to not constantly bring him up and instead honor him by finishing the show as close to his ideas as they possible can.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734582 - 8 months ago

    In reply to LordBeefDip

    And, in the case of the writers, if it's the second, then it DEFINITELY counts as an appeal to authority, if not very close to one.  And in the fans' case, it absolutely was the second, using Monty's name as a catch-all defense against criticism.  Some are still doing it.  This is why motive is important, people!

  • SaberWulf

    SaberWulf

    #33734598 - 8 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

     I am against using Monty as weapon in EITHER way. Attacking the writers or the writers using it as a shield

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734618 - 8 months ago

    In reply to SaberWulf

    I dont think RT is trying to use Monty as a shiled. They get asked about Monty a LOT as I said I dont think there has been a panel set YET where monty hasnt been brought up.

    Originally it was people wanting to know how much is planned and how much does Miles and Kerry have to work with.

  • Whiterosepetal

    Whiterosepetal

    #33734623 - 8 months ago

    using somebody as a meat shield is stupid, especially if they are dead, then they are defiling his memory. Trying to do that then passing it off as protecting his memory is just bullshit.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734627 - 8 months ago

    In reply to Whiterosepetal

    And as I said I 100% dont think that is what RT is trying to do at all.

    People keep bringing up questions on how much was planned did monty envision this and so on.

    RT is trying to be honest about what is and isnt going on.


    People are taking that and warping it into them using him like a shield when in all honesty its really people using Monty as a weapon against RT and them having to put it down.


    There is a VERY good reason why people are starting to make it known NOT to ask Monty questions at the panels because people are being A-holes over the situation.

  • SaberWulf

    SaberWulf

    #33734628 - 8 months ago

    In reply to revanninja


    Agreed. Its more the white knights FOR RT that have that issue. Either way, wether its them or toxic fans its dumb.


    Honestly this all started because of that letter from Shane. The switch from Poser to Maya, the cut content Monty apparently wanted to include but Miles and Kerry didn’t


    Its created a real ‘Us vs Miles and Kerry’ vibe with a fair number of people who think that this is no longer Monty’s story its Miles and Kerrys.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734629 - 8 months ago

    In reply to SaberWulf

    The issue is that was ALWAYS going to be the thing.

    See Miles and Kerry have only so many notes and with little changes happening either because they couldnt make certain ideas work or other RL issues like time crunches eventually the end parts are not going to be able to meet.


    Considering what we know of Raven now yeah I can 100% see why Miles and Kerry were like no dont do this even if it wasnt the exact image back then I assume Raven was mostly designed as a character by then so it didnt make sense.

    And if the other content was the same I can understand why.


    Maya from Poser was already happening BEFORE Monty passed away. There is several tweets by Monty talking about it. So that is just people not liking change.


    Shane BROKE with Monty's passing and that is super obvious in his letter. There is a good reason WHY Shane hasnt gotten in trouble from RT. They clearly know Shane is not in a good place and would prefer him getting better over their image.

  • SaberWulf

    SaberWulf

    #33734630 - 8 months ago

    In reply to revanninja

    See, I’d also heard that apparently these people are of the belief it was Miles and Kerry who were pushing Monty to switch the software over


    For the record I don’t believe them, but I like to analyze all sides.


    Now, if these people want to say Miles and Kerry aren’t doing things exactly how Monty would have? I personally think thats a fair statement, you may disagree. Theres definitely less ‘rule of cool’ going on. Not to mention Kerrys questionable at best philosophy on fights happening off screen 

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734632 - 8 months ago

    In reply to SaberWulf

    No I agree Monty would be doing things differently but that is because he was a different person. Monty was a genius when it came to fights and designing them he had a different outlook and understanding then them.

    So yes he would most likely do it differently that doesnt mean it would change drastically though. It might mean we get more or less the same volumes but better fights or more details in said fights.

    Its hard to say how it would play out to be honest.


    The fights off screen is one of the areas I think is a mistake you wont get any argument from me on that. I dont mind if say we see Police and White Fang fighting then we cut away and later we see Police with captured White fang that works for me. Kali and the White Fang or Sun ghira vs the fox brothers also worked.

    But things like RWBY vs Em Merc and Hazel? No that is the line. They dont need to show every single second mind but they for sure needed to show some of that fight.


    As for the Software NO. Poser is an Old style animation that is more or less free at this point in time which Monty used and got familiar with pretty heavily. Maya is the more current version with a lot of updated abilities both Quality of Life stuff for animators and increased animation abilities.

    Poser got the job done but was lacking in a lot of things and most animators now a days are taught Maya so if they kept with Poser they would need to teach any new employee's how to use it vs them already being familiar with it.

    So as far as I am aware they were rumbling about Maya back in Vol 2.

  • SaberWulf

    SaberWulf

    #33734633 - 8 months ago

    In reply to revanninja


    So the animation thing was toxic people being idiots. Shocking. 


    But yeah, i don’t usually go this far, so please excuse this brief rant, but I wanted to physically shake Kerry when he said that about the fights. Like hey, dingbat, you realize the fights are one of the cores of your show right? What was going through your head when you decided we didn’t need to see a single second of Weiss, Blake, and Ruby fighting side by side for th first time in two years? The hell with that nonsense.

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734636 - 8 months ago

    In reply to SaberWulf

    Pretty much 

    Monty was working on tools to make Poser more viable from my understanding but I dont know how that was going outside of him working on it.

    And I know vol 3 was a mix of Poser and Maya though I would be hard pressed to tell you HOW that works.


    Kerry is overworked that is the issue.

    I have seen a couple of things from his twitter and so forth that indicate Kerry is under a TON of stress over RWBY. There is even a few AH videos he is in where they bring it up and Kerry is clearly responding with sarcasm that its all fine no time limits its great. And that was before Monty passing if I recall right.

    After words especially with the toxic people its clear he was over working himself. And Vol 5 was a clear case of them trying to do too much the finale consumed too much time and resources and they have since admitted the shorts also consumed too much time and resources which is why we are only getting 1 and not 3 like last time.


    So I imagine Kerry did it because he was overworked and everyone was so they didnt get it until they looked back and were like oh F. Which I have seen happen tunnel vision for creators can get nasty.  You get caught up and dont realize unless someone else points it out to you and with RWBY everyone was just as busy.


    They are taking some serious steps to prevent that hiring a new co-director should help with the stress and other things. As well as getting more reviews both internally and externally.


    It was a mistake on Kerry's part and he realizes it and is trying to prevent it from happening again.

  • SaberWulf

    SaberWulf

    #33734638 - 8 months ago

    And I hope the changes pan out. Seriously I do. Im as sick of the overly toxic people as you and they no doubt are.


    Thats why his comments frustrated me. Like, people already give them enough crap over the fight scenes without them literally saying ‘yeah were fine doing that stuff off screen’


    Thats them not really helping their case if you catch my meaning?

  • revanninja

    revanninja FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold One who is judged by the

    #33734640 - 8 months ago

    In reply to SaberWulf

    No it isnt but the thing that people leave out is when he said it he said I am fine with having off screen fights but I know others are not and I am working on it.

    Him saying that was him admitting he had an issue and is working on it.