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Why was Volume 5 one volume instead of two?

Posts (14)

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33715361 - 3 months ago

    It strikes me that part of the problem with Volume 5 is that, even though large parts of it were just filler designed to waste everyone's time while the clock ran down, it also had too much going on to do justice in a single volume, and spent very little time on world building.

    Imagine if when Weiss Yang and Ruby were back together they had a sub plot in Haven where they had to gather information and got wrapped up in the goings on of the place. They could have given us a reason to care about Haven, and given us some reason to care about Haven Academy and what it represents to people.

    The final fight in Volume 5 may as well be taking place inside a Wal-Mart for all the reason we're given to care about it, it could have been so much more than that. Also it could have been much more animated and had much better animation direction and editing I mean why did it keep cutting from fights and showing characters just standing around when they're supposedly trying to kill eachother? But I digress, I'm getting ahead of myself.

    Imagine how much cooler it would have been if Blake rallying the troops had been the finale for Volume 5, after all that other stuff that should have been in it? We would have known at the end that she was headed to Haven, that they would all meet up there, the team would be getting back together in Volume 6. Huzzah. Despite some obvious problems with that episode, the raid on her family home was actually one of the better climaxes of the Volume, it was the perfect place to close off the season.

    Then in Volume 6, we could have actually seen the faunas on the move, more scenes involving the white fang and other world building side quest stuff could have been squeezed in, we could have possibly had some fun downtime moments that have been notably missing since Volume 2 (those moments are important because they add gravity to the more serious moments, that's why they're even in Code Geass, you wouldn't care about the school or any of Lelouche's so called friends without those more lite-spirited scenes at the academy).

    Then for the Finale, it could have been a more substantive confrontation over a few more chapters. Hazel's backstory sucks, but we could have seen him fight instead of awkwardly standing around, the Cinder Raven fight was awesome so no complaints there, AND they could have shown us Mercury and Hazel do some actual fighting, and made the whole scene with the White Fang and Adam more satisfying, because they would have had the time and resources to do it if it were in a whole other Volume. Everything wouldn't need to be rushed and corners cut.

    Speaking of Adam, it would have been nice if there had been like 15 more White Fang there, and if Adam had at least killed the goat dude or something, gotten a good scrape in with Blake, and maybe got Ice Cloned and Stabbed through the arm or something before running off into the woods. We'd already have more context for the Faunas suddenly arriving, because we'd have seen them loading moving and landing, so it wouldn't be so uncanny for them to all just suddenly be there. Also, at least one member of the White Fang could have spotted them and gotten knocked out or something before warning, that would have made their arrival feel more believable. Adding to that, if Adam got a little killy on a few faunas and said something about siding siding "with us or them" and the White Fang ended up being shaken or divided instead of all blindly firing in unison like bots in a videogame, that would have been great.

    Oh yeah Ruby should have had more action and done more in the final episodes than rotating awkwardly and doing a headbutt.

    I criticize out of love, I want to see the show become better not worse. I am genuinely concerned about it's future after Volume 5.

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33715445 - 3 months ago

    TL;DR Volume 5 was full of time wasting filler but also moved around way too much and didn't explore Haven enough or have enough of the more lighthearted moments (like the food fight in Volume 2, for example) that are essential to adding gravity to the more serious moments. Necessary transitional sequences were missing leading for instance to an uncanny immersion breaking feeling when the Faunas arrive, and the battle in Haven may as well have been taking place inside a Wal-Mart because we weren't given enough context by the anime to care about the location.

    If Volume 5 had been split into two volumes, the showdown at Haven Academy could have ended Volume Six being stretched out over more chapters with better fights & action, and we would have had a reason to identify Haven as a place of importance beyond "The location of the McGuffin!" If the time frame of the fight were a problem, the Durarara!! approach could be taken, showing events in one chapter then showing simultaneous and slightly prior events in another, with connecting events that help viewers keep up.

    Volume 5 could have have progressed about normally until Ruby Weiss and Yang were together and then set them off on a little sub plot in Haven that fleshed it out, and it could have ended on a high note after the assault on Blake's family by showing them boarding the ships and leaving for Mistral. Fans would have been thrilled if that had been the ending, and would have probably loved Volume 5 instead of being divided with a lot of naysayers criticizing it.

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33715447 - 3 months ago

    TL;DR X2
    They should have explored Haven after Ruby Weiss and Yang were together then ended with Blake rallying the troops after the assault on her family. The last few chapters in Volume 5 should have been stretched out over several chapters in volume 6 with more action and more intelligent scene direction and editing. To keep the sense of the passage of time from being a problem, it likely should have taken the Durarara!! approach of showing simultaneous events across multiple episodes with connecting events to keep viewers up to speed.

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33715558 - 3 months ago

    The reason why it was only one volume is obvious, namely that splitting it in two would have meant that it would have taken another entire volume to reunite the team properly. That means another year of the fandom going crazy during the hiatus and Volume 6 because they're sick of waiting for the RWBY reunion and its yet another volume where the writers need to juggle multiple storylines at once which they discovered they weren't very good at (but also couldn't avoid since that would mean trampling on Monty's vision).


    Volume 4 and 5 certainly suffered from not getting enough time spent on each storyline, the problem is that they not only have to think about how much time something will take to cover in the story itself but also how long it will take to produce. If they had a animation department big enough to make every episode 20 minutes long then they could have done Volume 4 and 5 justice. The problem is that they didn't and don't have the capacity to do that yet and while some people might have been willing to wait 4 years for Team RWBY to reunite the majority of the fans likely wouldn't. Not to mention that spending 4 years writing a split narrative like that would likely have driven Miles and Kerry crazy.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33715618 - 3 months ago

    In reply to AenarTenthSkraeling

    Perhaps certain decisions turned out to be bad ideas in their inception, let alone their execution.  And if this really is "Monty's Vision"....then I think it left a LOT to be desired.

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33715665 - 3 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    In reply to AenarTenthSkraeling

    Perhaps certain decisions turned out to be bad ideas in their inception, let alone their execution.  And if this really is "Monty's Vision"....then I think it left a LOT to be desired.


    Monty was hardly infallible but the real problem is that when they can't consult with the guy. People can change their minds or adapt to unexpected hurdles but a stack of notes isn't just going to stay a stack of notes. Plus a lot of the worst parts of Volume 4 and 5 were the lackluster fight scenes which likely would not have been a problem if Monty was still alive to help animate and decide on choreography for them. 

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33717204 - 3 months ago

    In reply to AenarTenthSkraeling

    The reason why it was only one volume is obvious, namely that splitting it in two would have meant that it would have taken another entire volume to reunite the team properly.


    But they could have gotten Weiss Yang and Ruby back together and let them have their own little adventure while building the hype for Blake's return. I don't believe that fans would have hated that, I think it would have made Volume 5 a lot stronger. What fans hated is how rushed and poorly directed everything felt at the end of Volume 5, that's going to be a black mark on the entire series, years from now if the show gets any better people will be saying things like "Yeah the ending of Volume 5 sucks but stay with it" and things like that.

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33717205 - 3 months ago

    I mean think of how much stronger the battle at Haven could have been if they had focused more on individual fights and had crossover events like in Durarara!!, maybe during one of the fights Juane gets knocked across the room going "Ahhhhhh" or something, it could focus on like three different fights in three different episodes and show us that as a reminder that this is all happening at the same time. That wouldn't be something new for Rooster Teeth they've done things like that with Red vs Blue before.

    Just that is something they could have done better if they had finished Volume 5 in Volume 6 instead, they would have had the budget and the number of episodes lined up to pull something like that off. That's just one thing, Volume 5 could have still had plenty of solid scenes and world building then Volume 6 could have knocked it out of the park with a lot of great fights.

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33717253 - 3 months ago

    In reply to ValentineHeart

    But they could have gotten Weiss Yang and Ruby back together and let them have their own little adventure while building the hype for Blake's return.

    That would have just ticked off the fans who hated the Menagerie arc and thought it was completely disconnected from the main plot and a waste of time. You and I are not the only fans of the show. We're not the only people whose opinions the CRWBY have had to listen to. Compared to the folks who just wanted the writers to take things slow and didn't care how long it takes until RWBY reunites as long as the journey was the best it could be were almost certainly outnumbered or at least out-vocalized by the people who hated splitting the team for one reason or another.


    If it was up to me the show would have gone on a one month break in Volume 4 in order to do buy themselves enough time to animate a Nuckelavee fight that did that thing justice. But doing something like that just isn't feasible for a variety of reasons. 

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33718567 - 3 months ago

    In reply to AenarTenthSkraeling

    In reply to ValentineHeart

    But they could have gotten Weiss Yang and Ruby back together and let them have their own little adventure while building the hype for Blake's return.

    That would have just ticked off the fans who hated the Menagerie arc and thought it was completely disconnected from the main plot and a waste of time.

    Yeah I disagree I don't think ANYONE would have been ticked off by Ruby Weiss and Yang having their own little side adventure fleshing out the story. What I see here is just a token defense of the way things went down.

    The Plot is nothing but collecting McGuffins to stop a Villain, it's like The One Ring in Lord of the Rings and interesting Plot DEVICE but LOTR would be pointless if they just took an eagle and dropped it in a volcano. The whole point of a McGuffin is to bring the characters together and propel them forward into interesting situations.

    Doing a side plot and some world building in Volume 5 would NOT have been a waste of time it would have contextualized the finale. The fight in Haven Academy may as well be taking place in a generic Warehouse owned by Roman Torchwick because they did nothing to contextualize it or build it up.

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33718569 - 3 months ago

    IMO anyone pretending Volume 5 should have been handled no differently from how it was handled is just in Fanboy defensive mode, unwilling to critically examine the subject of their fandom. I criticize because I love RWBY and want to see it improve. Volume 5 was a train wreck, it had it's moments but it screwed up bigtime on several fronts and the creators of the show have basically acknowledge that.

  • user-5848d785b1a95

    user-5848d785b1a95

    #33718689 - 3 months ago

    What exactly do you mean that they have ''basically acknowledged it''? I haven't heard of the writers saying such a thing. As for the quality of RWBY, I'm thinking about dropping it, it may have had promise at one point, but all the incompetence of the crew has gotten to me. It's like a bunch of people with no experience got dropped into a room and had to write a story, so many basic mistakes, a seeming lack of any forward planning and not being clear about their views on criticism of the show. I know they can do better but this has left a bad taste. I just have nothing else to ''replace it'' with because this show was unique. If a piece of fiction has a ton of things wrong with it, and we say we like it at the same time. then it means things have either taken a turn for the worst, and/or we just like it for the potential it does not have anymore.

  • tin-foilhat

    tin-foilhat FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33719008 - 2 months ago

    In reply to ValentineHeart


    I have to agree with you. As much as I love the series still I find it hard to sit through a re-watch. One, there is no more visually stimulating fights outside of the MaidenVsMaiden, Yang vs the Tribe, and Weiss and Pilotboi's near escape. 


    The rest of the focus and plot progression was reliant on "standing around and talking" to carry the narrative. I'm sorry M&K, but if that's what you call an effective narrative choice for an action series you should have stuck with Red vs Blue instead of taking creative control of RWBY following Monty's passing. It kills me to say it, but I read this line on the YMMV page at TV Tropes:



    • Only the Creator Does It Right: A Vocal Minority of the fandom has been in this spot since Volume 4 and has increased with Volume 5. The biggest flak many fans seem to have is the over reliance on talking scenes and the lack of fights, with some fans suggesting that Miles and Kerry are trying to scale back on the action scenes because they can't make the RWBY fights the same way Monty used to.


    And what struck me is how much they are RIGHT. One of the things that made Red vs Blue interesting in the early days was the writing done given the limited animation. So essentially, you just had a bunch of guys stand around and talk to keep the story/plot going. They obviously had a lot of fun with this given the bizarre and off the wall content RvB has produced over the years. Miles, Kerry, and Monty all worked on RvB, and they carried that experience with them when animating RWBY. Many of the Freelancers fight like our RWBY girls, CT having a mirage/copier power in her suit, Yang has inherited Tex's raw brutality, and Pyrrha's finesse fits Carolina's athleticism and drive to a T. 


    So much of the momentum from the earlier seasons was lost with Monty's passing, and I'm not talking about action scenes alone. It's forgivable they should stumble without him but after two seasons you would expect them to have found their footing. And if the "standing around and talking" is their way of executing a series I can't say I blame so many fans, Wright included, for deciding to abandon ship. 


    I still love the show but my expectations for the series is dampened severely. I feel like the heart and soul is gone. All that is left is the characters going through the motions until the series comes to an end. It's like what happened with A Song of Ice and Fire after A Sword of Storms. That book was the peak of the series that sadly everything that came afterwards would be a tough act to follow. I think in some ways GRRM just caved under the pressure of the book's popularity and bar he set for himself that the resulting stress to keeping up the standards he guessed readers expected from future installments killed his creativity. A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons feels SO constrained and the writing feels very "play it safe" it. So while Game of Thrones' writing isn't anything stellar at the moment I can't blame D&D for abandoning so much of the show's source material.  


     

  • ValentineHeart

    ValentineHeart

    #33728059 - 3 weeks ago

    I think a huge part of it was rushing. They didn't give appropriate time care and editing to the volume, they tried to hammer out episodes as quickly as possible and quality suffered. I don't know if it's pressure from the executives or if it's just a lack of resources or a lack of proper planning and care for the show but Volume 5 was rushed, and while that which is delayed is eventually good that which is rushed is forever terrible.