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RWBY "And Then There Were Three" Spec Script

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  • trevordylan

    trevordylan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33732098 - 2 months ago

    So along with my twin brother, we wrote a spec script for the series RWBY. We took a lot of fan theories, including our own, and built an episode that would be further down the line in the RWBYverse. We had an absolute blast writing it and I hope you feel the same when you read it. Thanks for being such an amazing community. I won't go on for too long, so without further ado, enjoy this original episode we made. Just for you all. 


    Best,


    The Benoit Brothers




    RWBY Spec Script, "And Then There Were Three" Episode



  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33732338 - 2 months ago

    In reply to trevordylan

    How passion can do wonders will always amaze me ! It was a GREAT read, thanks for sharing it.

    I don't care if this becomes canon or not one day, I enjoyed it very much ! I would only have changed some minor details if it was up to me.

    I especially appreciated what you did with Cinder. And Neo and Emerald... haha this is something I have had in mind for a long time, their semblances are too similar to not think about it :)

    Do you plan on a sequel ?^^

  • trevordylan

    trevordylan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33732353 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Velrak I'm really happy to hear you enjoyed it. My twin brother and I always wanted to write an episode and make it our own. We based the fight on the Battle of Teutoburg Forest to give it a strategic feel. We really wanted to humanize Cinder and show that she believed in her cause until the very end. The fight with Emerald and Neo felt like a no-brainer considering their semblances were very similar. It would be a balanced fight that would rely on wits. If people really like the episode, we would love to write more. 

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33732370 - 2 months ago

    In reply to trevordylan

    Well nothing prevents you and your brother to write anything you desire about RWBY. You are obviously more than capable of doing so, wether you make it public or not is only up to you. Everyone has its own way of enjoying RWBY, don't let any expectations slow you down in your writing. Both of you still can do this for your own pleasure ! Be sure that at least one person enjoyed it :)

    I don't know if your familiar to those forums (I bet you are since I see you are a First member) but it is quite hard to gain visibility with a "personnal" thread. I don't know if you shared your link elsewhere on more "collective" threads but I advice you to do so if you wish to gain more visibility.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33732372 - 2 months ago

    Also, the way you depicted Cinder is what I expect the CRWBY to do. Since the beginning they have proved to me that RWBY is not just a binary show with pure heroes and pure vilains. Besides the Gods of Light and Darkness that they needed (but at this point, we still have to take Qrow's words and so Ozpin's for granted), I like how all the charachters represent different shades of grey.

    I expect the CRWBY to really explore those possibilities (as they started to do with Raven for example).

  • trevordylan

    trevordylan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33732373 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Velrak We definitely are up to writing more episodes in the future to see where we think the show could go from the battle we wrote. I'm familiar with some of the forums, but would definitely like to share it on some threads that might get more visibility. If you have some suggestions, that would be great! 

  • trevordylan

    trevordylan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33732374 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Velrak It makes my brother and I really happy to have someone who enjoyed the episode we created. It means a lot to the both of us to hear your opinion and to share your ideas. We would be grateful to have other people read it because as a writer it's always great to generate a response. This is definitely a way for us to enjoy RWBY and visualize for ourselves what an end game could look like down the line. 

    Also glad you agree with us on the future representation that we can see the CRWBY doing with Cinder. The lines of good and evil are definitely going to blur in the coming seasons. We might even see characters we consider good slide into the other direction. We'll definitely have to see what they do with them!

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33732387 - 2 months ago

    Sorry, but I lost any and all enjoyment I might have had for this the second you had them forgive Cinder.  The very idea that Cinder can be humanized in any fashion is both narratively weightless and subjectively offensive, as she is a school shooter that went past the point of no return before anything that could have narratively humanized her showed up within the show.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33732437 - 2 months ago

    In reply to trevordylan

    Well I mostly follow "Pyrrha Nikos general discussion" and "V6 wants and theories" but there are even more larger threads !


    In reply to WrightKnight

    Haha classic WrightKnight reaction here ! Is it to understand that you would have enjoyed the entire script only with a different ending ? I know how sensitive of a subject this character has been for you. 

    Here, it is all about forgiveness but this notion does not have universal boundaries.

    I 99% agree with your view on Cinder because based on what the show gave us about her (BOTH backstory and actions), I think it is almost impossible (I said almost) to defend this idea she could be forgiven at some point.

    BUT, and this is something that still upsets me, we have been given almost no backstory on Cinder just vague and stereotyped phrases like "I want to be strong/feared/powerful" (I guess when speaking to Salem)... If this is all the backstory we are supposed to have on Cinder, then 1) I think it is a waste 2) I wish the CRWBY made it clearer before and 3) there is no way I could forgive her. But because of this lack of backstory, Cinder's case is still not closed for me in terms of forgiveness.

    It is because I'm someone who still needs to know BOTH backstory and actions when faced with this question. But I have already seen in real life how others would only forgive based on the actions of a specific person and even sometimes just like that ! I still can't buy it but I'm trying to understand. "Strength in forgiveness" as Ghira said about Blake is a concept I'm personally still exploring.

    This is why I find very interesting what they did with their script, they chose Blake but most importantly Jaune to be the ones forgiving Cinder... It weighs a lot ! Blake ? We already saw her forgive Ilia (at this point, it was based on both backstory and actions as Blake obviously knew enough about this for Ilia so I was on board !) but here it seems Blake is still forgiving without even considering Cinder's past... It makes sense at first sight because that's Blake but to make complete sense this would require more previous character developpment for me. And Jaune ? This is even more interesting because of his Pyrrha's loss due to Cinder. I think there is a reason why they did that little scene between Jaune and Neo ; it gave Jaune material to think about his loss...

    Now to reach a point of forgiving Cinder within the very same "episode" ? Unlikely if you want my opinion (as well as Neo changing her mind so fast at the beginning) but I like the idea and hell, it was only one script.

    Bottom line is that the idea of forgiveness is at the core of their script in my opinion and they could very well continue their writing by exploring it (previous events I would say). They depicted it in a certain way that I find very interesting. I never said that I agreed with what they did but only that I appreciated it as it resonates with some questions and personal reflexions I have (besides still being a possible scenario for me considering the real show).


    Now to be honest, even if the CRWBY eventually gives us a full backstory on Cinder, chances are quite low it would change my current mind about her. But I would be very interested to see how some characters would then react ; some may say "The hell with you Cinder, you are and always have been nothing more than a monster, there is no way I can forgive you, just burn in hell !" and others could say "I reconsidered my judgement and forgive you". This could even raise some tensions between some characters !

    It is not because I treat forgiveness in a certain way that I expect all the characters to do the same. On the contrary, the more various behavior the show provides, the richer it can be. For some questions, I can say that I agree or disagree with the show. For others (so forgiveness), I can't because I still lack a definitive position/judgement and I'm open to anything that would provide me some material to help me set my mind about it.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33732439 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Velrak

    The point is that at this stage, Cinder's backstory should never matter, she's already done too much wholesale damage, both objectively, and to the cast themselves.  What we have seen so far, based on what she has done (and specifically what we have seen her do on-screen), that is all that should matter now.  And based on the character interactions we've seen since, there's no way to sell the idea that Jaune would forgive Cinder, no matter what he may learn about her later.  Cinder crossed a line, the line that TVTropes calls the "Moral Event Horizon", and she did so before ANY such humanization narrative happened.  Simply put, it's narratively too late.

    Just think: would you have pity or sympathy for a real-life school shooter, even if you found out later that they were suffering some mental illness?  I could understand that the people closest to said shooter might feel some pity or sympathy, as they knew first-hand what that person was going through, but to the average person without that knowledge?  No dice.  They did a horrible thing, and they should pay for it.  Maybe they get the treatment that they should have gotten, but the damage was already done.  To use historical information, the "I was just following orders" defense didn't fly in the Nuremburg trials.  Going back to fiction, Azula of Avatar The Last Airbender wasn't deserving of sympathy or forgiveness, but thanks to her portion of Zuko's backstory ("Zuko Alone"), we knew of Azula's mental instability BEFORE she performed an action that crossed the line (her killing Aang in the caverns under the Earth Kingdom palace), she WAS deserving of our pity.  They set it up beforehand, thus Azula's season-long descent into her madness carried its narrative weight.  

    It's not that we need to know Cinder's backstory, as well as her on-screen actions.  It's that we already know enough to make a final judgement.  Contrary to popular (and wrong) rhetoric, the narrative timing matters.  The CRWBY, to use that asinine moniker, already made it clear enough how monstrous she is.  She is in no way a character that showed any semblance of a morally gray nature.  She's not Char Aznable, not even close.  If they have any sort of sob-story in Cinder's background, as those who but fully into her Cinderella inspiration would have you think, then they are sending the message that one's horrible childhood (or something like that) excuses what we saw them do.  THAT is why I say that it is also subjectively offensive, on top of being objectively narratively too late to include sympathetic/humanizing elements to Cinder.  And I'd say the exact same thing if you took someone else from the cast and put them in Cinder's role.  It's what I know about the mechanics or writing that have me come to this conclusion, not any personal feelings I might have for Cinder.  But go ahead, tell an actual victim of a school shooting that they should feel sympathy for the shooter.  See what kind of answer you get.

    With what they've shown so far (mostly through showing how Cinder assembled her crew), I can see an Emerald redemption being narratively impactful, as well as one for Mercury.  However, the kind of treatment they should receive at minimum is what Katara gave to Zuko when he tried to offer himself up as Aang's Firebending teacher.  They've done the main cast dirty, VERY dirty, so it should take a LOT on the part of Merc and Emerald to show that they should be forgiven for their actions.

    You know me for my strong responses to stuff like this?  Then you should also know me for taking the subjectivity out of my responses as well.  Continuing to focus on the strength of those responses instead of the words themselves says more about how you want me to be perceived than understanding what I am trying to say.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33732446 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Well I'm sorry if you took my reply in a wrong way but it was never my intention to make you appear as a the "bad" one for others. I was actually trying to know if you enjoyed anything in their script besides pointing out what you didn't like or disagree with. I think all kind of feedback would be worth for them. Neither was my intention to not try to understand what you say. And for the record, I know you are one of the most capable around those forums of taking subjectivity out of your responses like you phrased it. You always bring valid arguments and build strong argumentation, I really appreciate that believe it or not.


    Now this "Moral Event Horizon" is the key to our discussion. My previous reply was just me saying that wether you can forgive someone or not depends on if you consider this person has crossed your Horizon. Because I assume this Horizon can't be the same for everyone (as you rightfully pointed out, a real-life school shooter would not receive the same pity from one of his/her relative than someone who is not and was directly or indirectly affected by the shooting). I have my own Horizon and every character in RWBY has its own.

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Cinder crossed the Horizon of everyone right ? (all the other characters and everyone in the fandom)

    Well I'm just saying that maybe it is not the case for some characters and one good way to clear this would be through a little bit more backstory about Cinder in order to see the reactions it could trigger among the entire cast. Nothing more.


    What is clear to me is that this forgiveness aspect is not obvious and worth to explore. The twin Benoit brothers could do it if they keep on writing and the CRWBY could also do it (at least I'd like them to, I'm thinking mostly about Raven, Emerald and Mercury).

    And let me be clear again about Cinder ; unofficially she has crossed my Horizon (by far) but officially not. Why ? Because we are in an anime and I'm maybe naively expecting a complete backstory for everyone in order to complete my judgement.

    If someday we have more infos on Cinder's past (it is already too late there is no need to argue here), I would be interested to see to what extent it impacts the other characters (and for me, it would probably help me to officially declare that Cinder is a lost cause).

  • trevordylan

    trevordylan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33732496 - 2 months ago

    Just want to say that we really appreciate the debate and conversation. It's really awesome to get a response and hear both of your opinions on the Cinder topic, as well as the episode as a whole. I guess I want to sort of address our thoughts when it came to the forgiveness of Cinder at the end of the episode. You see, when we thought about her death, we were analyzing it from a few different perspectives and not simply from the narrative. It is highly based on the situation and character response. When you have this massive battle and a culmination of all this loss, there comes a moment of self-reflection. Every single person standing on that field is a fighter, be it as a hunter, huntress, or to fight for what they believe in (be it for liberation or for their people, etc.). Even on Cinder's side, it has always been a fight. They know that death and loss are just that. The characters have grown up by this time. So when Cinder is dying and they have the opportunity to show forgiveness, why shouldn't they? There's nothing to be lost to show respect for someone on their deathbed, despite the past grievances. To hold on to that guilt or hatred, it isn't something a warrior should hold on to. Certainly not these characters. Cinder may not have had the same respect to them if they had lost the battle, but the fact remains that they're the heroes and they can be the better ones. To have them spit on her as she dies doesn't exemplify the characters that we've followed for this long. Salem might not be the kind of person we can sympathize with, she seems to be pure evil. But I think that Cinder is more of an antagonist than a downright villain. I think with the right foundation and the right handling, sympathizing with Cinder is a possibility. I'm not sure if the show is too far gone to do that, but that is what I would do if I were assisting in the development of Cinder during the next few seasons. We thought at the end of the episode that yes, Jaune might not 100% "forgive" her, but in saying it out loud, it can help in the healing process of finding that. Jaune is not the kind of person to hold onto hatred and Pyrrha certainly wouldn't want him to. It's about the characters and how'd they'd react. At least, that's how we saw it. I would love to see CRWBY tackle the changes these characters go through in how they react and show how they feel. I hope we sort of made a good argument for the decisions we made in the episode, particularly in regards to Cinder. Loss changes people and it can lead to anger, but at a certain point you have to find forgiveness where you can get it. Otherwise it can turn good into evil. Which could certainly be an interesting path to go down with characters. At the end of the day, what we wrote is about how far gone Cinder truly was, there's a certain sadness to that, and how there may be a place for forgiveness in loss. Again, cannot thank you both enough for contributing to the topic and helping us better explain our decision making when it comes to writing. Would absolutely love to write more and better analyze Cinder's backstory! Looking forward to your thoughts!

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33732507 - 2 months ago

    In reply to trevordylan

    And I'm saying that that right foundation and right handling should have been in play BEFORE she willfully (and under sound mind and body) shot up a school.  In that, I have no interest in contributing further, since I'm advocating that Cinder NOT get even the slightest shred of forgiveness.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33732681 - 2 months ago

    In reply to trevordylan

    Glad you enjoy the debate. It was certainly useful to me too.

    I will have another read of your script later, I'm sure there are other topics to talk about. But long period of work ahead of me, I will continue to contribute but less frequently (here and other forums).

  • trevordylan

    trevordylan FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33732695 - 2 months ago

    Your contribution in talking with us about what we wrote meant a lot. Really cool that you enjoyed it and found something in our take on where the show could go. I'm curious what other takeaways you'll find from the script. Definitely always happy to debate and have a conversation about the depth that RWBY has/can have. I hope your long period of work treats you well and look forward to hearing from you!

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33732698 - 2 months ago

    In reply to trevordylan

    Thanks, all the best for you as well !