Forums > RWBY

To Rooster Teeth, from a new fan: Keep doing what you're doing! (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

Posts (22)

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33733763 - 2 months ago

    Sal-u-tations, all! I'm a first-time poster here, as I'm EXTREMELY new to the RWBY fandom, but... well, I've pretty much fallen completely in love with it over the last week and a half or so, binging the whole thing as quickly as possible (and then re-binging it almost immediately afterward!). And I've recently realized how important it is to let content creators know how much their work is appreciated and anticipated, so I've decided to post here in hopes that the Rooster Teeth staff will see this message and glean a little bit of encouragement from it.


    I feel I should come clean, though, about my full intentions: the impetus for me posting this is the negativity I've seen online regarding RWBY volumes 4 and especially 5, which I'm hoping I can counteract a bit. I work in video game localization, and I can say from experience how disheartening it is when large swaths of the fandom rally against something you've put all your heart and soul into -- and I don't want to see you guys get discouraged or lose faith in the RWBY project because of this, as I genuinely think you're doing an absolutely wonderful job with the series. Monty would no doubt be very, very proud of how you're all handling his baby.


    I was introduced to RWBY less than a month ago when I happened upon the first volume DVD in Little Tokyo for $5 and decided I'd give the show a shot -- I'd heard a lot of good things about it, but also heard some bad things about it (a lot of the things I'm referring to in the paragraph above), so I wasn't really sure what to expect. Especially since I've NEVER watched anything else Rooster Teeth has ever put out before, nor have I ever been interested in any of it (modern internet humor and machinima generally do nothing for me). And heck, if I'm being completely honest, I'm also not a big fan of fight scenes in general -- impressive fight choreography is undoubtedly cool to see, but absolutely non-essential to my enjoyment, as I'm always far more interested in good world and character development. A well-written and poignant conversation scene will always win out over even the most badass of fight scenes, in my book... and is much harder to get right, too, which is why I'm consistently so impressed that you all totally nail it every time in RWBY!


    Anyway, after purchasing that volume 1 DVD, I popped it in, and... well, truth be told, I can't say I absolutely loved it, but I definitely saw a lot of potential for greatness in it. It reminded me very much of one of the more popular games we've released, "The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel," due to its minutely detailed setting and characters. And I could tell there was an even deeper world behind what I was seeing. (The fact that the music was EAR-MELTINGLY AMAZING didn't hurt, either!)


    So, I went on Amazon and ordered volumes 2-5 on DVD, since none of the DVDs were very expensive and I was fairly confident I'd at least get my money's worth from them.


    Once they arrived, I eargerly popped in volume 2 and selected to watch it contiguously as a movie (why was that option dropped from the volume 5 DVD? I really quite missed it! Please bring it back for volume 6, even if the movie winds up being 4 hours long!), and from that point on, I was utterly hooked -- I basically binge-watched volumes 3-5 in a single weekend, and they were practically all I could think about during work the whole next week. I've since watched all the character shorts and World of Remnant specials, and all of RWBY Chibi as well, and I absolutely CANNOT WAIT for volume 6.


    I've seen a lot of people complain about volumes 4 and 5, claiming that there's not enough action and/or not enough character development... and personally, I dunno what they're talking about! Volume 4 was basically perfect, and is probably my favorite volume in the whole series thus far -- between the Nora/Ren development, Jaune dealing with his grief, Yang overcoming her PTSD, lots of choice Qrow moments, that crazy epic Kuroyuri fight, that utterly fantastic monologue as Ruby writes her letter to Yang (seriously, what a superb ending to the volume!), Blake and Sun bonding, Blake's parents, Weiss' escape, Weiss' song, plus the whole "journey/adventure" feel in general (which I'm ALWAYS a sucker for!), there was really no way I WOULDN'T love basically everything about that season. Add in some of the best music tracks in the series to date, too (This Life Is Mine! Home! Armed and Ready! Boop acoustic! Bad Luck Charm!), and yeah... volume 4 pretty much ruled. And volume 5... was indeed a little slow-paced compared to its predecessors, but that's not always a bad thing. Especially when you consider what all we LEARNED during it; the plot development was absolutely unreal! SO MUCH was revealed in volume 5, and I feel like the characters all grew as people quite considerably. Plus, I absolutely adored the addition of Oscar to the cast! Volume 5 was certainly not my favorite, but it was still OUTSTANDING, and it had a lot of really superb moments that deeply resonated with me (the Ruby/Oscar conversation in the training hall being the big one -- I totally cried during that! -- but also the reunion of Ruby and Yang, the reflection on everyone's past, the numerous confrontations between Yang and Raven, and Blake's rather poignant conversation with Sun about how she associates people with specific concepts, not to mention the seemingly impossible task of rallying the Faunus to defend Haven!).


    Basically, what I'm saying (to Rooster Teeth specificially) is... constructive criticism is all well and good, and if you guys are taking feedback from your fans, that's great! Just... please don't rely too much on what the fans demand. Do your own thing. Use your best judgment and work toward Monty's vision as best as you can, no matter what the fans may think of it. And try not to be discouraged if people tell you your work sucks, or RWBY has gone downhill... because it doesn't, and it hasn't. RWBY has engaged me like very few shows ever have before (volume 5 included), and I know for certain I'm not alone -- but I also know that satisfied fans are much less likely to thank you for doing a great job than dissatisfied fans are to chastise you for "sucking." It's human nature to criticize, but... not as much human nature (especially on the internet!) to praise. And while I can't speak for others, I can at least tell you that I personally am THOROUGHLY INVESTED in this story, and have absolutely fallen head-over-heels in love with the world and people of Remnant. You've all done an amazing job fleshing it out and really creating a mature, multi-faceted story with fun yet extremely deep and well-written characters that stand up to even the tightest of narrative scrutiny. I've seen a lot of people claim that character development was all but nonexistent in volume 5, but frankly, I feel like those are people who are perhaps too young to really appreciate what you've all done with that volume, as it's almost shockingly nuanced, filled with social commentary, symbolism, and intelligent dialogue and character arcs that I think may appeal more to older demographics... which suits me just fine, being a ripe old man of 38. ;) I wish you all the best in continuing this wonderful series, and though I'm new to it, I can confidently say that I will be with you all to the bitter end now -- as I'm sure will many, many others.


    I hope other people respond to this post with similar messages of encouragement, too, to let you all know that you're doing an amazing job and we're psyched to see what happens next to this incredible cast of characters you've created!


    Thanks for reading, and best of luck to you on your future endeavors!


    -Tom


    P.S. Favorite episode has to be "No Safe Haven," though "Family" is a close second, and like, the entire second half of volume three could vie for third. Favorite song is... impossible to pick, but "Home" and "This Life Is Mine" are REALLY high up there. Recent favorite song is "Armed and Ready," though, which is just such an encouraging anthem for Yang! Favorite character is... also impossible to pick, but I guess I'd go with Ruby herself in a pinch (though Jaune, Yang, and Nora are very close! And I have a bit of a soft spot for Oscar, and of course Qrow, and... well, I could keep going, heheh). And favorite opening, both visually and in terms of music, is volume 2's "Time to Say Goodbye" (though narratively, volume 3's "When It Falls" is the most hauntingly bleak and fitting). And even though volume 4 is my personal favorite volume overall, I'd say volume 3 is objectively the "best." It kind of has to be, considering what all happens during it! Tough act to follow, too, which is part of why volume 4 impressed me so much -- you guys depicted the aftermath of volume 3 as perfectly as I could ever imagine, and really changed up the tone of the series in a very necessary way.


    Tl;dr version: Thank you, Rooster Teeth, for creating what is quickly becoming my new favorite show, and if any of the negativity I've seen online has been getting to you, please know that there are plenty of people out there who love what you're doing, exactly the way you're doing it, and wouldn't want to see you change a thing.

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33733961 - 2 months ago

    The constant negativity in the fandom has really sucked a lot of the joy out of enjoying the series lately, to the point that enjoying the series almost requires shutting yourself away from it. Sure Volume 5 had its flaws but it also did a lot of amazing things and its sad how so many (extremely vocal) fans seem to forget that. So this thread and your post is a very welcome breath of fresh air, thank you for making it.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33734141 - 2 months ago

    In reply to wyrdwad

    Welcome to the party ! I totally relate to your history with RWBY (saw first episode and then... bindging everything in two days ! An instant passion and I could only think about RWBY for weeks afterward. Join these forums quickly). 

    I guess everyone have their own opinion about the show but constructiv criticism is still too rare and pure hate toward RWBY has really grown and become toxic (Kerry even recently distanced himself from the "toxicity" of Twitter which I totally understand). So your post is welcome ! Discussing about what we didn't like is interesting but showing appreciation and support is also a good thing (which should happen more often in my opinion).

    I know that some people working at Rooster Teeth go around those forums from time to time but personally I only crossed path with people working on the new website and looking for feedback. I'm not sure if anyone from the CRWBY also hangs around, at least I never heard from any of them here. But don't delete this thread !! You never know :)

    And lastly, V5 is my least favorite volume so far but I still rank it as "good". I liked the first ten chapters very much but the last four chapters kinda ruined everything for me... But I learned later that V5 script was not even finished when V5 started to air !! Which explains the rush and overall poor quality at the end (in my opinion as always).

    Miles and Kerry recently revealed at RTX-Austin that they are currently in much better shape in terms of writing this year ; they are currently finishing chapter 13 of V6 while they were only finishing chapter 8 of V5 one year ago. And they also said how they were constantly looking for feedback during writing which I find to be a very good attitude and a proof they are willing to listen to external opinions. They just want to do what is best for the show. So definitely good vibes for V6 but I still need to see it :)

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33734144 - 2 months ago

    I did feel like the last four episodes of V5 were a bit rushed when I first watched them, but I've since RE-watched all of RWBY, and I noticed quite a few more details my second time around that I missed the first time, which have helped me appreciate the ending of the volume a lot more. A lot of what happened during those last four episodes was absolutely crucial to the development of... basically the entire cast, I think, and while I didn't feel like the fights themselves were as satisfying as in previous seasons, I did think the dialogue was spot on, and really helped bring closure to a lot of issues -- mostly in regards to cementing the vast strides Yang and Blake have taken in bettering themselves and their outlooks on the world. Yang has grown so much more confident and learned so much more self-control, and Blake has finally learned to accept that she can't keep blaming herself for what happens to others when they stand up for her.


    I also think Raven is a fascinating character, and I got a very good sense of the sort of morally dubious person she represents from those last few episodes. At first, I didn't like this, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized it's actually... kind of brilliant writing. As a viewer, you WANT Yang's mom to be a badass character you'll always be cheering for -- a rebel, but a rebel fighting for a cause worth fighting for. But that's simply not who she is, and I like that a lot. I like that Raven is... honestly just NOT a good person. But she's also not a BAD person. She's someone with a very bitter, very cynical outlook on the world, and while she's not beyond redemption, she has done some truly awful things that are going to be very, very difficult to forgive moving forward.


    I look forward to seeing what they do with her in the upcoming seasons, as it's clear she's going to be a real wildcard.


    But yeah, if the ending of volume 5 was indeed that rushed, that only makes the successes of the volume more impressive in my mind, since it still felt very planned and nuanced overall. And if volume 6 is even farther along at this point, all the better!


    I totally relate, BTW, to your statement that you felt "an instant passion and could only think about RWBY for weeks afterward." I'm in that stage right now -- I don't want to watch or play anything else, I just want more RWBY! I've gotten to the point that I've been re-watching whole seasons via reaction videos from Murder of Birds and Puns of Damage! Who both seem like really cool people.


    On reflection from my viewings, too, I've decided that I think volumes 3 and 4 are equal masterpieces in a lot of ways -- they're like two sides of the same coin. Neither could or should exist without the other, and they both complement one another so very perfectly, showcasing the two sides of RWBY in perfect contrast. Having watched both in sequence as movies, I can honestly say that they will probably now be henceforth regarded as two of my favorite movies -- with volume 2 behind, but not FAR behind.


    Also, "Armed and Ready" is absolutely, positively my favorite ending credits theme in the series to date. I CANNOT get enough of that song! ;)


    ...Anyway, thank you both for your responses! I don't know how much I'm going to post in here, but I hope to pop my head in now and again as the spirit moves me. Take care, and here's to volume 6 being awesome!


    -Tom

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734145 - 2 months ago

    In reply to wyrdwad

    Just keep in mind that showering them in nothing but praise can do damage, too (and that IS what you are doing).  It's very possible that they didn't think anything was wrong because they weren't hearing enough dissenting voices, and there ARE serious problems with RWBY, and to a degree, there always were, just hidden until recently.  Remember, we are not just the audience, we are the last line of defense in quality control.  And quite frankly, we as a collective NEED to do that job better, and they as writers NEED to be more proactive and to, to be perfectly honest, dial back on the appeals to the fandom.

    I analyze fiction from the mechanical side, the foundation and supports that keep the architecture up.  If those aren't sound, then the whole thing crumbles, and any subjective concept built on them is rendered meaningless.  Basically, while others are marveling over the paint job and ancillary add-ons, I'm stress-testing all the major components.  After all, one should not care about a sporty paint job if there's no functional engine, right?

    What I'm saying is that you're going to hear a different and more objective perspective from me, and you're likely not going to like what you hear.

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33734147 - 2 months ago

    "Just keep in mind that showering them in nothing but praise can do damage, too"


    I disagree. At the end of the day, this is their show, not ours. I've always felt that the best artists are the ones who paint for themselves, not for an audience. And frankly, I want to know the rest of the story that CRWBY intends to tell, without outside influences changing any part of it whatsoever (which I know is unrealistic, but that doesn't change the fact that that's ideally what I want to see here!). The show may not be perfect under those circumstances, but it will be "pure" -- it will be THEIR vision. And their vision is what's captivated me thus far -- it's what's made me a fan, and keeps me interested in continuing to watch the show. So I trust them to make the right decisions... as long as they stick to their guns and DON'T adjust too many things simply to appease fans. Because this is not the fans' show -- it's Rooster Teeth's show. And as long as they don't bend to the will of the fanbase too much, I will continue to support them.


    ...Also, I disagree that there are serious problems with RWBY. There are minor problems at worst. But that's of course a matter of opinion! And if I am to accept that there are "serious problems," then I say, give me MORE serious problems. Because I really like the ones I've seen thus far. ;)


    -Tom

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734148 - 2 months ago

    In reply to wyrdwad


    Well, to begin: Plot and Foundation: DBZ vs. RWBY   

    Keep in mind that you are a new fan, and have not been exposed to the crap I have.  Like I said, you're not going to like what I have to say.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734149 - 2 months ago

    And to be honest, I'd like to know just where they're going to get all this feedback.  Can they trust that what they get is going to help them, and not just fans looking to praise them for everything?  This IS a fanbase that largely considers "constant negativity" to include constructive criticism of ANY kind, of any seriousness.  That's coming from two years in these trenches.

    And you'd be right about the best artists are the ones that paint for themselves; that they're writing the story they want to tell, not the story that their audience wants to see, but I've seen a LOT, both from them directly to their fanbase, as well as in-series, that they are writing more to fluff up their audience.

    As for Raven, it's clear what's going to happen: she's going to die, and Yang is going to be the new Spring Maiden.  Probably in some "heroic" sacrifice, after coming to terms with how shitty a parent and person she is.  Did you know that the only reason that we have any inkling that she actually cares about her daughter is those portals of hers?  She can only do that to people she's "bonded" to.  In every other way, she's acted like a shitty person to pretty much everyone.  The portals were basically a substitution for actual character development, and a severe case of Telling, Not Showing, since they had to outright explain that power.  Tell, DOn't Show is one of those things that they've had problems with from the start.

    Let's see....back in season 2, Cinder infiltrates the CCT Tower to plant the virus, and Ruby's entrance into that scene causes such a disturbance that Ironwood and Ozpin bring Ruby in for a debriefing afterwards.  Consider that Cinder got basically a few floors under Ozpin's office to do something, and while they don't know WHO was in there, they know that SOMEONE was in there, and intended harm.  That seems like something they should investigate directly, on top of sending a team that is out of their weight class to Mountain Glenn, and considering what a major linchpin that part of the plan was (underscored by Cinder herself doing it), you kinda HAVE to show that the people who have tasked themselves with the safeguarding of the world, who have the resources to conduct such an investigation, who don't actually have any real obstacles preventing them from doing so.....somehow don't do these things.  Again, it's THE major part of Cinder's plan, so any attempts to circumvent it HAVE to be shown, in order to keep a narrative balance.  Some dialogue between Ozpin and Ironwood about such an investigation, or perhaps a small scene of the comm room full of Atlesian technicians performing the investigation.  Just would have been enough to show us that they are doing something directly.  Now, if NEO had been the one to conduct the infiltration, I could have seen them doing nothing, as they would have never known that someone was in there at all.  But they didn't, they went for the flashy skirmish, and ended up ignoring anything to do with Ozpin dealing with it on his end.  Make no mistake, Cinder's plan IS a good one, but the biggest part of it actively relied on Ozpin's inaction, inaction that doesn't not make sense in ANY context.

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33734150 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    There has always been problems with RWBY because its very much a "learn as you go" type of project. None of the people involved had worked with a project of this scale when they started out and each volume has been bigger than the last. What that means is that they will inevitably fuck up from time to time, but they do learn from those experiences and they are improving. And quite frankly there has been enough negativity heaped on the writers to last several decades. Having them spend all their time wading through the ocean of filth heaped on them in search for a few nuggets of actually helpful advice is not going to give us a better show. Ultimately it is up to the producers to improve on their own initiative, the fandom can at best give extremely loose guidelines for which direction to take the show and often those directions are contradicting or just plain wrong.


    Also declaring yourself to be objective doesn't actually make you be objective. That's not how objectivity works. 

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734151 - 2 months ago

    In reply to AenarTenthSkraeling

    I actively take my own wants out of the equation, relying on over thirty years of fiction immersion and a decent amount of formal learning when I make these posts.  You've seen me post for long enough to know that.  So yes, I AM being as objective as I can possibly be.  Why do you think that I don't talk about such subjectivity as symbolism and themes?  That's the flashy paint job, or at best, the power windows.  I'm looking at things that ALL writers have to deal with when they write, whether they realize it or not, things that, if not done, WILL undermine everything built on them.

    But I'm not here to fight with you.  I'm here to give fair warning, that this new fan WILL hear things that he, for all the signals he's giving off, may not want to hear, and may try to shield himself from.  He will hear those things, and many of those things have solid reasoning to back them up.  He sounds like the kind of person who'd scoff at it all, and continue on.  I'd like to know that he's NOT that kind of person, that's he's willing to take the criticism with the praise.

    I also don't see you calling him out for using the term "objectively", when the only thing he claims makes it "the best" is that the most things happens in it.  Just pointing out the double-standard.

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33734195 - 2 months ago

    Hmmm... I typed up a long reply to this post, but every time I post it, it keeps disappearing, with no notice as to why. Have I been moderated for some reason?


    -Tom

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33734196 - 2 months ago

    Maybe it was too long. Let me try posting it in pieces:


    The thing is, I'm NOT going to hear things that I may not want to hear, because frankly... I'm not going to be listening. I made this post as a message to Rooster Teeth, and to like-minded fans, and that's about all I intend to do as far as interacting with the community goes at this point. I won't be reading your analysis in the linked post, because frankly, I don't care about it -- especially if you're comparing RWBY to DBZ, because I *hate* DBZ, and hope RWBY never goes down the same road that bloated mess of a series did. ;)


    Sorry to say, I am indeed going to be "that kind of person." I'm here to enjoy RWBY, and nothing else. I'm open to talking about theories of what may happen next, and gushing about RWBY with fellow fans, but if you're trying to get me to see the show critically, you're going to fail... because that's not why I'm watching it. I'm watching it because I genuinely enjoy it, and as with all my favorite shows, I'd rather just continue enjoying it without thinking too hard about what it may be doing wrong. It's escapism, after all, so why ruin that escapism with needless criticism? Can't a guy just enjoy something for what it is, without analyzing what it did wrong and hoping beyond hope that the creators will somehow improve upon those aspects in the future?


    That's kind of what I feel is wrong with fandoms in general these days. I play a lot of retro and indie games, for example, and I've noticed lately that people have been extremely critical of such games, picking apart every little flaw that's in them to explain why they're "bad games"... and that's kept me from playing a few for a while. Then, when I finally decided to give them a try anyway, I fired them up and had an unequivocally excellent time with them. I didn't even notice the so-called flaws that "ruined" these games, because what the games did well resonated with me louder than anything else -- and a lot of the things reviewers listed as flaws, I saw instead as charming quirks, even kind of liking them in some cases.


    RWBY was exactly the same. Even one of my own coworkers warned me away from it at one point, claiming it was a terrible show. Everywhere I looked, I saw negative comments about it. But I decided to give it a try anyway, after years of neglecting it, and now it's immediately become one of my favorite shows I've ever seen. I am enjoying virtually everything about it, and while I COULD deeply analyze it and come up with a number of criticisms (I have a degree in English literature and work as an editor, after all, so none of that would be in any way new to me), I choose not to.

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33734197 - 2 months ago

    Because at the end of the day, it wouldn't be of benefit to anyone. The show's already great, and I've learned that when I'm enjoying something, the best thing I can do is continue to enjoy it without looking too closely for any cracks to show. Doing that would be like looking at your significant other and saying, "Well, you're beautiful, BUT THERE'S ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT." ;)


    The only reason I posted is because I know, as a content creator, how difficult it is to ignore a fanbase that insists upon criticizing your every move... but how important it is to do so for the sake of one's artistic integrity. I know CRWBY has already capitulated to the fans in one regard or another (the fact that they recorded a song called "Bmblb," for example), but have yet to see this reflected in the show itself -- the show remains, as far as I can tell, CRWBY's own vision, unaffected by fan demands or criticisms.


    And I hope it stays that way. That's why I made this post. I like it just the way it is. To quote Yang... it's "juuuuust right." ;)


    -Tom

  • RavenBranwen325

    RavenBranwen325 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold 走开

    #33734207 - 2 months ago

    Your'e right.  Its perfect just as it is. Maybe just a few flaws but pinnacle nonetheless.    

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734215 - 2 months ago

    And so the echo chamber is admitted to and is already constructed, with a heavy seasoning of willful ignorance.  I think I was hoping for more, but I got pretty much what I expected.

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33734216 - 2 months ago

    In reply to RavenBranwen008

    Well I wouldn't say its perfect. Then again, is anything? And in any case the OP is right, obsessing over flaws accomplishes nothing except to reduce your enjoyment of the show. Its better to accept that its flawed and keep enjoying it anyway than to constantly harp over every perceived mistake (real or otherwise).

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33734220 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    And so the echo chamber is admitted to and is already constructed, with a heavy seasoning of willful ignorance.  I think I was hoping for more, but I got pretty much what I expected.



    So you were hoping I had misgivings? That this work of entertainment made me unhappy in some way?


    I would never wish that upon another. 'Tis better to be glad that others are enjoying the show than to wish for them to "open their eyes" to things that will inevitably have a negative effect on their enjoyment.


    Live and let live, you know? "Willful ignorance" isn't inaccurate, but you know what they say: ignorance is bliss.


    And sometimes, it's best just to let people be blissful, as long as they're not hurting anyone in the process.


    (To be clear, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with criticism! But that's not what this topic is for. Coming in here and saying "you're wrong not to criticize" is no different than if I were to go into a topic where people are trying to constructively criticize the show and saying "you're wrong to criticize." This topic was created for encouragement and good feelings, and I'd like it to be kept that way. And likewise, I won't interfere in any of the dozens of other topics on here in which the show is criticized, even if I feel those criticisms are unfounded or unfair.)


    -Tom

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33734223 - 2 months ago

    In reply to wyrdwad

    I was hoping that you weren't going to insulate yourself from dissenting voices.  But with your last response to me, I know that that's exactly what you intend to do.  I was also hoping that your professional experience would allow you to better see the flaws than the vast majority of this cultish fanbase, but you've chosen to abdicate your duty as quality control.

    Yes, I know the phrase "ignorance is bliss" and it's feeble justification for those that think like religious converts, as well as people who don't want to change their minds when faced with new information.  They foolishly think that what they don't know won't hurt them, but they likely would be able to avoid being hurt if they knew.  That you know and do not care is even more damning.  You supposedly not only have good knowledge of writing, you are actively using that knowledge in a professional capacity.  I would think that you have some minimum standards based on that training and expertise, but you've blatantly chosen to not have ANY standards here.  That's more damaging than anything I could ever do.  You actually didn't need to make your own echo chamber, you could have easily joined one of the MANY RWBY-based ones here.  Not very hard to find them, really.

    Thank you, and goodbye.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33734977 - 1 month ago

    In reply to wyrdwad

    I highly respect your approach ! I agree that very often, it is best to not look too much into the details in order to not ruin your own experience when it comes to a show even if you could. Escapism like you said is the key. Why refuse it when it is possible ? We are not talking about religion or politics here where it is wrong to avoid debate (but again still in my opinion). RWBY is an anime and as such, anyone can enjoy it its own way and can't judge that some other fan don't enjoy it the "right" way. It just makes no sense.

    Feeling or reason ? This debate will never be closed. I say every combination is possible and none is better than another. Personally I do both and so far all the analysis and discussions I have been through have not changed the fact that I love RWBY. I'm aware of some imperfections but because the show is not over, I still hope those imperfections will be adressed. And even if they won't, there is a good chance I will still consider RWBY as one of my favorite shows !


    Here is my personal "ranking" of RWBY volumes : 

    1) V3 (9.5/10)

    2) V2 (9/10)

    3) V1 (8.5/10)

    4) V4 (8/10)

    5) V5 (7/10)


    Bottom line, I don't consider RWBY to be a perfect show and don't think it will ever be (as nothing can be perfect but I think you know what I mean) but I loved it so far and I think there is a good chance that RWBY goes down as one of my favorite show when it will be over.


    Also since you mentionned the songs (which are amazing, I mean the Williams are a gift to the show, they are insanely talented) my top 8 goes as follows (because I can't make it shorter) : 

    1) Bad Luck Charm

    2) This Life is Mine

    3) Not Fall in Love with You

    4) Roman Torchwick Theme

    5) This Will be the Day

    6) Red Like Roses (Part 2)

    7) Home

    8) Yellow Trailer Soundtrack


    Also since you said you ran into Murder of Birds reactions, well I did too quickly after watching the show the first time. You are on the right track :) I frequently rewatch his reactions as well as the main show of course (and you can duplicate it with RWBY Chibi !)

    Also given your profile, I would recommend you to watch the mashup reactions from HuntSD, Asiankido and The ModernCamEraGuy.

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33735358 - 1 month ago

    Thanks for the reply, Velrak!


    I've been thinking about this post for a while now, and have decided that perhaps I was a bit rash in my "see no evil, hear no evil" ear-plugging approach; that was mainly a knee-jerk reaction to what sounded like someone telling me I'm wrong not to be more critical. The fact is, I do acknowledge that the show isn't perfect, and I do have issues with certain aspects of it.


    But I do still stand by my approach of just watching and enjoying it anyway! Complaining about what amounts to minor gripes in a show that I've come to regard as one of my favorites in less than a month's time accomplishes nothing, and can only serve to lessen the enjoyment I get from watching and re-watching my favorite episodes.


    It's similar to being a Trekkie, in a lot of ways. I regard Star Trek: The Next Generation as possibly the greatest TV show of all time, but if you actually dig deep into criticizing it, there's a LOT you'll find wrong with it. Straight-up plot holes, inconsistent writing, plot arcs that go nowhere and are quickly forgotten... it can be argued that ST:TNG is kind of a mess, and it would be difficult to refute that.


    Does that take away from all the amazing things TNG does well, however? Absolutely not. And that's kind of why I created this topic, in retrospect. Nothing is perfect, and if you dig, you'll always find something to complain about. But when a work of fiction or entertainment resonates with you, focusing on what it does wrong will only rob YOU of the good times you might have with it. I feel it's always better to overlook a work's flaws in favor of its finer points, especially when those finer points are SO GRIPPING that they practically give you goosebumps.


    So in the spirit of that, rather than trying to defend the show from criticism, I'd like to better articulate why I've come to love it so much. And the answer very much lies in volumes 3 and 4.


    I saw potential in the show after volume 1, but still wasn't hooked: volume 1 had a few too many anime tropes and a lot of expository writing that felt a little too cobbled-together for my personal tastes. But it also had enough going for it that I decided to watch more, and volume 2 fixed basically *everything*, as far as I'm concerned. Volume 2 was virtually a perfect "action movie" through and through, and I was wondering how they could top it.


    ...But then volume 3 upped the ante in every possible way. Volume 3 brought the villains' plans -- which had been in effect since episode 1 of volume 1 -- to their natural conclusion... and the enemy basically won. The only real "success" of this volume was the Beacon students mitigating the damage as best as possible, taking a historic disaster and making it SLIGHTLY LESS of a disaster. And the fact that everything which happened in volume 3 had been planned out and executed so well by the bad guys made this loss feel a lot more real. It wasn't just "the bad guys won because that's more dramatic" -- you could see why and how they won, and it made perfect sense that they would've. And the buildup to this victory, using the Vytal Festival as a backdrop, was absolutely brilliant. Additionally, due to the losses the heroes incurred in this volume, the stakes have been raised for the entire rest of the series -- every time there's a battle after volume 3, virtually every viewer will be on the edge of their seat, unconsciously wondering if someone is going to die or be dismembered, since the show has proven literally no one is safe, and volume 4 proves that there are greater consequences to these losses than just the narrative inconvenience of not having a person with you anymore, not having an arm, etc. 


    Which brings us to volume 4: the other side of the coin. When you've already depicted the climax of a battle, and had the protagonists suffer a monumental defeat with ample casualties, where do you go from there? Well, the answer is: you show the aftermath. You scatter the protagonists to the four corners of the world, show their home lives, show how they're dealing with what happened (both physically and psychologically), and show them struggling to rebuild and get back on their feet. And this, I think, is when I absolutely fell in love with the show. It's true that not a lot actually happens in this volume, which is why a lot of shows might skip these events -- but it's precisely *because* RWBY chose to show them that I've come to appreciate the show so much. We get to see the characters suffer from loss, grief, depression, and even PTSD, and we get to see the unique ways in which they overcome these personal demons in order to move on and try to save what's left of the world. This is something that's not often depicted in fiction, but it really helps humanize the characters, and also -- as noted in the above paragraph -- raises the stakes considerably, since you now know that there are significant consequences to losing battles. The combat being less flashy and "anime" makes a lot of sense at this point, too, since the world has smacked these people across the face and shown them that they were being far too reckless up till now -- and I like how the combat has gotten easier to follow, and is depicted as a lot more defensive than it was during the first few volumes.


    You couldn't have volume 4 without volume 3, and IMHO, volume 3 wouldn't be as impactful as it is without volume 4 following it up. I've come to decide that the two are equal masterpieces in my mind, and really do represent two sides of the same coin. The existence of one greatly benefits the other, and I love how well they complement one another, and how well they parallel one another too (Qrow taking care of Ruby at the end of volume 3, Ruby taking care of Qrow at the end of volume 4, etc.).


    Because the two work as a pair so well, it was nigh impossible to follow it up and maintain that momentum. So, volume 5 happened, GREATLY advancing the story and setting the stage for the rest of the series. Volume 5 represents the resurgence of hope, and the start of a new chapter; it is, basically, a new beginning. I watched a YouTube video talking about how each volume of RWBY represents one of the four seasons, with volume 1 being spring (the time of rebirth and change), and I feel like volume 5 is the series' second spring. It's setting the stage for the next leg of the journey -- the next great story arc. To me, it was like volume 1 all over again, but better: pure potential, filled with intriguing revelations, and making me eager to see more... but this time, the writers had a solid basis of four previous volumes to work with, so they were able to better flesh out the characters and play upon their interpersonal relations, resulting in some deliciously tense moments outside of combat.


    ...I think I've rambled enough, though. Suffice it to say, I've come to love this show, and while I'm not going to deny that criticisms can be made, I still feel the best course of action is simply to enjoy it for what it is, as I have every confidence Rooster Teeth will do right by it, and by Monty.


    Can't wait for volume 6!


    -Tom

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33735538 - 1 month ago

    In reply to wyrdwad

    Completely agree that Volumes 3 and 4 go hand in hand. But I think the same could be said for V1 and V2, V2 and V3 etc... I really feel like each volume was very well set up by its predecessor and laid the foundations for its sucessor as well. The general flow is great in my opinion and maybe because the CRWBY are indeed inspired by the seasons ; I know what video/theory you are referring to ("The Truth about the Seasons !?!" from EruptionFang) and I believe in it.

    Monty was very creative but also very organized : colors, numbers, fairytale references... RWBY has a solid internal structure and I believe Monty had indeed the seasons' tons and dynamic in mind when creating all the Volumes.

    And to quote Glynda from V3/C6 : "No two summers are alike."

    So V6 (supposed to be "summerish") should be similar to V2 but just similar :)

    I expect the "have fun" aspect to be present in V6 but not as much as in V2.


    27th October can't come soon enough !

  • wyrdwad

    wyrdwad

    #33735593 - 1 month ago

    How ironic, too, that the second "summer season" of the show is going to be taking place in the frigid northern lands of Remnant! I'm really looking forward to finally learning a bit more about Atlas, with Weiss most likely (and very reluctantly) playing tour guide the whole time. ;)


    -Tom