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Volume 5 was the best Volume of RWBY

Posts (50)

  • CPY98

    CPY98 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33737126 - 2 weeks ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Also, what if the statement of the members of JNPR being considered main characters wasn't necessarily a lie, but a half-truth. Hear me out on this. While I did love the character of Pyrrha, I feel like maybe the writers didn't consider her a main character because of the fact that her main role was just making Jaune a better huntsman. Aside from that, we didn't really get to know much about her background, as opposed to Jaune, Nora and Ren, who's backgrounds were at the very least briefly mentioned. As for who the 8th main character would be if it's not Pyrrha, I'm guessing it would be Qrow or Oscar because of the fact that both characters played huge roles in the show following their debut volumes. If there's anything in the commentary of the blu rays suggesting otherwise, please let me know. That's just my two cents on that matter.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33737130 - 2 weeks ago

    In reply to CPY98

    Then it's still a lie.  The statement was that all members of teams RWBY and JNPR were mains.  If the writers did not consider Pyrrha a main despite saying that, then that means they lied to the audience, knew they were doing so, and fully planned on it.  And please, Nora, a main?  All she has been is Ren's arm-candy.  All Ren has gotten was a minor revenge arc in one season, and has done nothing before or since.  Those aren't mains, those are supports getting their day in the limelight.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33737272 - 2 weeks ago

    In fact, I'll go on record saying that your main character is NOT Ruby (though she only carries that tier level due to her Silver Eyes)...but BLAKE.  She and the White Fang have driven all of the major plots, the writers have clearly spent the most time on her character arcs, and have given her the largest sub-cast (and have gone to great lengths to not kill any of them).  And overall, only three characters can truly hold the title of Main-tier, despite anything the writers might have officially said in the season 1 commentaries: Blake, Ruby, and Jaune.  Weiss and Yang are Secondary-tiers, Ren is pure Supporting tier, and Nora and Pyrrha have ended up near the bottom, right above the extras.  This is all based on how much ability to drive the narrative as whole the writers gave them.

    Simply put: if the writers did not actually consider Pyrrha a "Main" character, then they should not have willfully recorded themselves saying that she and her team are.  They did as such on the season 1 commentaries, saying something along the lines of initially building JNPR as a support cast, but then elevating them in the closing stages of development to Mains.  That carries the implicit expectation that they, right alongside team RWBY, are going to have prime ability to drive the overall narrative.  Jaune has done some of that, adding some intrigue with the false transcripts.  I pretty much ignore the whole "making it personal" angle that the deatyh of Pyrrha was supposed to give, as no one's actions actually changed because of it.  See, the events that fracture RWBY had nothing to do with anything JNPR got themselves into, and they are close enough to Ruby to have gone with her anyway, simply because they would not have let her go alone.  We thought Pyrrha was going to, and they had a damn good thing going there for MAJOR character development for her, only to find that all of that build-up was for Ruby's Silver Eyes (and here's a detailed breakdown as to why it had no narrative weight, also comparing it to a well-known event in anime that did it perfectly)  Ren has had one little thing all to himself, and Nora simply played her little role in it.  Other than that, Nora and Ren have had no ability to drive the narrative.  Yang has been playing support for Ruby, and later Blake.  Only now is she getting anything all her own, and it's a weak arc at best, thanks to it all hinging on the idea that Raven actually gives a shit about anyone other than what use they are to her.  Ruby has the Eyes and nothing else.  Weiss had some promise, but eventually got nothing out of her escape from Atlas other than humiliation on all fronts, including being used as the vehicle for another character's power-up.

    We are now basically seeing which characters are actually valued, and they're not the ones that they claimed were valued.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33737319 - 1 week ago

    In reply to CPY98

    so there you go.  You asked if there was anything in the commentaries saying such things, and I provided.  I do hope that's not you down-voting my posts, as that would signify the idea that you don't like what I had to say, even though I gave you exactly what you asked for.  So far, I've said nothing that was not true.

  • CPY98

    CPY98 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33737564 - 1 week ago

    In reply to WrightKnight I wasn't down voting any of your posts. Whoever's doing it, I genuinely have no idea. I actually like all the arguments that you're bringing to the table.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33737594 - 1 week ago

    In reply to CPY98

    Had to be sure.  That being said, whoever is down-voting my comments is behaving along the lines of the religious zealot mentality I spoke of: slavish praise for anything and everything done in RWBY (to the point of worship, and there are fans of RWBY that DEFINITELY treat Miles, Kerry and Monty that way), and the "how dare you criticize" attitude towards anyone that has something else to say abut it.  The vote system is being used to convey that without actually addressing any of the points I bring up.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33737675 - 1 week ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Especially by remaining anonymous.

  • thecaptaincog

    thecaptaincog

    #33737953 - 6 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Completely agree will all of your stuff. I watched the last of volume 5 yesterday and I was like, "This is great, but there's so much stuff missing..." Glad to know I'm not the only one. I'm interested to know what you would have changed for Season 5 if you were given the chance. It's my rule (personal, you don't have to follow it if you don't want) that if I criticize something, I have to have a way to fix it. 

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33737965 - 6 days ago

    In reply to thecaptaincog

    Unfortunately, all the problems in season 5 stem from the earlier volumes, so I'd have to do some serious reconstruction, as far back as season 2 at the latest.  Now, for the one big thing that I'd change in season 5, I'd cut out the Yang/Raven plot entirely, and that's as easy as letting Weiss get to Mistral without crashing. 

    See, Yang knew exactly where the others were going, and was shown on-screen giving up the bandits to head to Mistral in the last season.  Then, the whole thing with Shad shows up, and she suddenly decides to hit up her "mom" to portal her straight to wherever it is Qrow is?  Yeah, I call bullshit.  Yang could have easily just gone on her merry way after taking out the bandit group that attacked her....but then you remember that WEISS has been captured by Raven's group.  There's no in-character reason for Yang to suddenly drop on by "mom's" place on her own, she's doing it because if she didn't, Weiss would be stuck there.....but Yang doesn't know that Weiss is even there.  That entire set-up was to get Yang and Weiss back together to start the reunion.  On top of that, Yang really did not think any of that through.  Really, making a demand of a bandit queen that has already saved you once, has no intention of doing so again (Qrow and Yang's conversation in season 3), and can frankly cave her shit in WITHOUT Maiden powers?  Yeah, good job showing us that you've learned from charging in recklessly, as that was the social equivalent of doing just that.  Finally, the whole thing stands on the premise that Raven actually cares about others beyond what use they are to her, and the ONLY thing that even hints at that is her portals, and THAT had to be explicitly explained (so another case of "show, don't tell" being thrown aside).  I mean, do we know what constitutes the "bond" that is required for Raven to make a portal to someone?  If it's an emotional bond....do the emotions even have to be returned?  Other than that, Raven just acted like a bastard towards everyone, and used everyone else.  Raven is basically the user and abuser that we've heard (but not shown) that ADAM is supposed to be, so the whole Raven/Yang plot was weak from its inception.  Know how I would have taken all of that out?

    I would have kept Adam in-character during the Invasion of Vale and killed Yang.  I'll explain this later, as I'm off my lunch time now, but I'll leave you to think on it.  Oh, and the other thing I would have done is not even bother with anything to do with Sienna Khan.  The character is completely vestigial, and added nothing to the overall narrative.

  • spoolofwhool

    spoolofwhool

    #33737974 - 6 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    It's interesting actually how many people point to Raven's semblance as proof that she has some emotions for Yang despite her hard exterior, yet we don't actually know what are the requirements for her to be bonded to someone. Nothing has stated that it needed some emotional connection of feelings.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33738009 - 6 days ago

    In reply to spoolofwhool

    Right now, the four people that we know she can portal to are Yang, Qrow, Taiyang, and Vernal.  Two are related to her by blood, and she's had sex with the third.  For all we know, the bond need only be by blood or bodily fluid shared willingly, and Raven is DEFINITELY they type of person who'd play the part with someone if it meant their loyalty.  Maybe this is what Vernal is to Raven, but of course that's entirely conjecture.  The complete lack of information hurts the show once again.

  • spoolofwhool

    spoolofwhool

    #33738040 - 6 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Sure. It could be anything. One more important thing though is that she needed to have a second member of the tribe she can portal to unless she and Vernal were planning on travelling back to their camp or never returning to it at all. Which means that if there is some special requirement for the bond, someone else in her tribe met it as well, which makes it seem even more insignificant. 

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33738046 - 6 days ago

    In reply to spoolofwhool

    If someone else in the tribe had a "bond" with Raven, why would she have portal-ed to Patch?

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33738050 - 6 days ago

    In reply to spoolofwhool

    Actually, there's another big piece of the Yang/Raven puzzle that seems VERY off: Yang withholding the knowledge that Raven is the Spring Maiden from everyone. 

    From their perspective, Cinder, Raven, and Vernal went into the basement of Haven, then Yang followed.  Later, only Yang came back up.  They ALL saw how Emerald reacted to that, so they can draw a conclusion that at least Cinder is dead (we as the audience can reliably guess otherwise, since there was no on-screen Maiden power transfer, and that's something you WANT on-screen, and this is an example of character-audience perspective separation)....which means that they might have to go chase down a NEW Fall Maiden, which would be a fool's errand, due to the aforementioned survival of Cinder.  In addition, Yang says nothing about Vernal or Raven (other than that Raven is "gone"), meaning they don't actually know what's happened to the Spring Maiden (remember, only Yang knows it's Raven, not Vernal).  Given that Raven's tribe is designed to be mobile, and that Qrow's suspicions about Raven's tribe having the Spring Maiden are true, they'll have to chase THEM down later, too....which can ALSO be turned into a wild goose chase, since Raven can just spin a convincing lie about Cinder killing Vernal, then herself killing Cinder and the Maiden powers passing on (using some truth to make a more credible lie), leading them away from the Maiden that was right in front of them the whole time....and Yang keeps this to herself, for WHAT reason again?  To protect a biological mother that basically all but told you that she didn't want anything to do with you?  Mistakes made by emotional people aside, this is absolutely a detrimental move to make, in a series that seems to now rely on its characters not communicating with others properly to drive its plot.  We saw a whole shit-show of that back in season 3 (you know damn well Pyrrha would have trusted Jaune enough to tell him exactly what was going on), and now it continues.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33738065 - 6 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    My memory may not be perfect here but I don't recall anything from Raven actually saying to Yang she doesn't want to do anything with her. It has always seemed to me Raven played hard as if she didn't care about Yang when it is actually the opposite. Why would she cry when Yang decides to take the relic and so create a nice target on her back ? Raven said "you don't have to" (or something like this). It seems to me Raven still hasn't found how to be a mother and/or past events (related to team STRQ) forced her to leave. I would really like to know the exact reasons why Raven left. I don't buy the portrait she has been painted into (selfish person, irresponsible and non sensitive mother).


    As for Yang not saying anything about what happen in the vault, I agree it is because she wants to protect Raven. I had a conversation with revanninja about it, he also pointed out Yang couldn't say anything because too many people not knowing anything about the maidens were present. Secret has to be kept here. Anyway, this topic I expect to be present at the beginning of V6. I can't imagine Qrow and Ozpin not really investigating what happened in the vault and where the Spring maiden is at least.

  • spoolofwhool

    spoolofwhool

    #33738070 - 6 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    I never really considered that Yang wouldn't divulge that Raven was actually the Spring Maiden. I thought that she just didn't say it immediately at that moment since it wasn't a pressing concern. 

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33738138 - 5 days ago

    In reply to Velrak

    Again, Raven has done nothing to indicate that she actually cares about anyone, let alone her biological daughter.  So why should I really care that she "cried"?  It might not be the image that the writers intended for Raven, but the fact is, the end result has portrayed her as someone who cares little for people beyond their use to her.  They seemed content with the creation of the bond portals as a literal expression of her hidden relations to others and left it at that, writing her as a bastard of a person otherwise.  However, they had to have a character explicitly state the limitations of her ability to open portals, and we as the audience don't actually know what defines the "bond", as I covered earlier.  Raven herself does not need to say anything explicitly to Yang, it is her actions that say far more than her words ever could.  And Yang would be foolish to ever trust anything coming from Raven again, considering the first time they parted, Raven all but threatened her, and then she came in on Cinder's side of the conflict.  Yes, it was for her own ends, but her motives at this point do not actually matter, it is that she chose Cinder as an ally that matters.  Quite frankly, Raven just caused her entire pitch of "don't trust Ozpin" to Yang to backfire, driving Yang further to Ozpin with her decision to side with Cinder.

    In short, the only thing Raven cares about is her own survival, and she's shown more than enough to say that she'll throw everyone else in the path if it means she comes out alive.  Everything else is posturing and acting, including her loyalty to her tribe.  If you want to find someone at fault for how Raven has been portrayed, blame the writers.  This is what happens when you use the wrong tools and the wrong materials to build your product.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33738180 - 4 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Yes Raven only cares about her own survival because she is scared. This explains almost everything we have seen from her. Yang figured her out about it and Raven never denied. But if this was only what drives Raven, I must ask again why did she cry ? Yang made her realize how bigger of a target she would become with the relic and offers her the perfect escape/cover by taking it, Raven should feel amazing but no she cried and left in pain. Also, why did Raven replied "I know" with such a regretful tone after Yang said to her "You weren't kind this time either" ? (when Raven created a portal to Qrow for Yang and Weiss, also Raven spoke just after they went through that portal). If Raven really only cared just about herself, she would not have replied that and not shown any pang of regret. And lastly, why did she come up with the "Save you once but do not expect that kindness again" rule for Yang ? This rule has always been utterly strange to me and the only way I can explain it is again not by considering she is just a scared person who only cares about her own survival but also as a mother who cares about her daughter. To me, Raven is caught between fear and regrets. She is naturally scared and acts as if she is not to appear strong but she also can't accept her decision to cut herself from the family she formed (and the reason why she did so may ironically come from her natural fear). I really think Raven never accepted how scared she is and this is why she has so much problems now. So in the case of Raven, I don't blame the writers at all. I think she is one of the most complex characters in RWBY and that her being portrayed as a merciless and solo woman does not explain everything we saw from her.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33738189 - 4 days ago

    In reply to Velrak

    All of this stems from her mistrust of Ozpin, but we have very little to go on from either person, which keeps us guessing.....but I'm sure that it'll be resolved.  Give it five more seasons.  We know that Ozpin can be manipulative, but all we've seen tells us that he's still genuinely working for the greater good, yet Raven all but claims otherwise, and they act like giving the Branwen twins the ability to turn into birds is some sort of massive ethical failing (never mind the ethical failing that pressuring Pyrhra into taking Amber's powers actually was far worse than that).  Everything Raven was saying about Ozpin needed more substance to it, and we didn't get that.  And quite frankly, it's too late to salvage it, thanks to siding with Cinder.  There's no moral excuse for taking such an action.

    Also, the "save you once" rule applies to everyone, not just Yang.  She didn't do anything special there.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33738235 - 4 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Haha five more seasons ? Come on, I say two :) But yeah I would very much like to know what led Raven to mistrust Opzin so much. Her and Qrow were apparently rooting for Opzin at the beginning, both "choosing" (if we believe Qrow) to turn into birds. But having seen how Opzin dealt with Pyrrha... I would like to know the exact circumstances.

  • CPY98

    CPY98 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33738247 - 4 days ago

    In reply to thecaptaincog So where would you rank Volume 5

  • thecaptaincog

    thecaptaincog

    #33738315 - 3 days ago

    In reply to CPY98 

    I would rate the volume 5 above volume 1, tied with volume 4, but below 2 and 3. I'm not going to go into too much detail (unless you want an in depth explanation), but essentially it's for these reasons:

    - pacing issues with plot, often resulting in lost impact of otherwise important events

    - lack of proper character development (especially in Ruby, Yang, Cinder, and Raven), resulting in empty and flat characters

    - glossing over of major plot points (Ruby's eyes, for example)

    - awkward and downright cringe-inducing dialogue in spots (Ruby's multitude of speeches, Yang's interactions with her mother at first, etc) 

    - inconsistencies in scenes and BREAKING OF IMPORTANT FILM RULES!!!! (For example, poles randomly disappearing, breaking the 180 degree rule of film, etc)

    - reduction of series to an apparent easter egg hunt (find relic, fight, move to next relic, fight, move to next relic...) 

    - inconsistent power scaling and what appears to be a low-ceiling goal, making it hard to tell where the characters can develop in the future 

    - failure to differentiate the "main" character from supporting characters

    - clunky and awkward choreography in some fights. Honestly it's not even the "Monty-ness" missing, it's that characters in some fights stand around, hits are not exaggerated enough to show their strength, the pace of the fight is diminished, and the tension of a fight is lost. That being said, the second half of the Raven-Cinder fight was amazing. 




  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33738329 - 3 days ago

    At this point, my list would be this:

    Season 2
    Season 1

    Season 4
    Season 3/Season 5


    Quite frankly, Season 4 isn't that much better than the two under it, and those two essentially tie for dead last.  I separate 2 and 1 because they are so far above the other three.

  • spoolofwhool

    spoolofwhool

    #33738348 - 3 days ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    I agree with that, though I would actually tie Volume 4 and 5 and put 3 a bit above them since I still enjoyed 3 a bit more than 4 and 5. I get your issues with 3 though so it's understandable why you put it in the bottom.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33738360 - 3 days ago

    In reply to spoolofwhool

    It's simple: season 3 is directly responsible for the crap we see (story-wise) in the next two seasons, and is a blatant violation of the "Contract With The Reader" concept (it IS something that every author must deal with, whether they want to or not, whether they KNOW about it or not).  Season 5 is just that much of a garbage fire, and season 4 is the barest minimum of a functional story, mechanically speaking.