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Volume 7 Wants and Theories

Posts (392)

  • seedfan85

    seedfan85

    #33757203 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Whiterosepetal

    I didn't think that I was by saying that trying to compare them to the people behind Avatar was being unfair to them. If it came across differently, maybe I could have worded it better, but that wasn't the intention.


    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    What they did, was give her a sob story, something that has been done time and again to the point that it is practically a stereotype. And, interestingly, despite the choppiness, I think that volume 4 was handled quite well for the number of storylines that they were dealing with and the limited number of episodes that it was given, despite Ruby's continued interference in a fight that she was ill-equipped for, resulting in her just getting in the way. Personally, I think that it would have been better to split it over two volumes, or even one entire volume per character, but that would have probably drawn RWBY out longer than the bigwigs would have wanted it to for financial reasons. Volumes 5 was a different story though, possessing some characterization issues, some of which were carried over into volume 6, which also seemed to suffer from some consistency issues. Both of which can arise from long running series, but, to counter that, most writers document their characters, so that that doesn't happen.

  • BakedBrain

    BakedBrain FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757204 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    Imho, one weakness of the authors that they are often generic and do not go to the end of things. Some actions do not have consequences or concrete reasons.

    Salem "was locked away by her cruel father". But why? Just for fun? A random idea which occurred to him?

    Could have been a prophecy that she brings armageddon. Which would also be a reason for pulling Ozma into the penalty game. In the actual story he did nothing wrong why condemn him to centuries with Salem's wrath on his back?

    Blake "was at every rally protesting" ... against what?

    Could have been SDC firing thousands of workers and replacing them by robots or SDC underpaying Faunus workers and sending them into mines with rotten security measures.


    Blake takes off her bow and ... nothing happens. It makes no difference if she wears it or not

    She could have gotten a cabin downgrade or been treated not as a valued passenger but as luggage, then she could have shamed the perpetrators by saving the ship.

    Cordovan and Ruby cheat and attack each other at enormous risk for other people but essentially nothing happens and they just make friends at the end.

    At least they could have had a wrongdoers pact. If you do not blabb about my air piracy I will not blabb about your misuse of equipment and overreacting *wink* - Deal


    There are also massive changes in the pace of the narrative. Before V3 the show was light-hearted with a very low global threat level and no danger to characters lives.

    In V3 the authors ramped up to a high global threat level (villains taking out a CCT tower, leveling an academy and bagging a maiden) and also a high threat level for protagonist characters (one B and one C taken out, an A losing a limb).

    Then abruptly the threat level falls back to the level of V1 and V2 (villains scoring no success on global ressources for 3 volumes. they even fail explicitly with an attempt on the second maiden and the associated relic. One villain faction self destructs because of incompetent leadership).


    Finally sometimes the show fails on its core selling point which is the visuals of the fight scenes. They definitely have an edge over the average anime in this area. But failed to deliver in the Haven fight despite hints to the opposite ("The more the merrier") and also in the last episode of V6 which was also explicitly hyped.

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757206 - 2 months ago

    The R trailer is finally here!  matt weiss


    Hot damn this was awesome. And well worth the wait. Plus we finally have a complete Team SLVR! :D

    I really hope the @CRWBY makes these people cameos in a future volume. It would be a perfect way to fill out the background with more Huntsmen/Huntresses without having to spend too much time or resources thinking up original designs.


    Also aside from awesome action in general that trailer had 3 things I really want to see more of in RWBY canon:

    1) People with Summoning style Semblances. If there are clone Semblances and the Schnees has Summoning as just one of many different Glyph powers then there has to be people out there whose Semblance is to Summon/Conjure up various critters or beasties.

    2) A person with a sniper weapon acting like an actual sniper. Ruby took big steps towards this in volume 6 and I loved her "snipe the missile" scene, but I would like something like the Vella scene where she just snipes the fuck out of hordes of enemies from so far away that they can't even see her.

    3) More old school Dust users please. That lady was awesome and I would love to see more stuff like that in canon. Have Raven use the Dust in her swords more the next time she fights for example.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757241 - 2 months ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    Imho, one weakness of the authors that they are often generic and do not go to the end of things. Some actions do not have consequences or concrete reasons.

    Salem "was locked away by her cruel father". But why? Just for fun? A random idea which occurred to him?

    Could have been a prophecy that she brings armageddon. Which would also be a reason for pulling Ozma into the penalty game. In the actual story he did nothing wrong why condemn him to centuries with Salem's wrath on his back?

    Blake "was at every rally protesting" ... against what?

    Could have been SDC firing thousands of workers and replacing them by robots or SDC underpaying Faunus workers and sending them into mines with rotten security measures.


    Blake takes off her bow and ... nothing happens. It makes no difference if she wears it or not

    She could have gotten a cabin downgrade or been treated not as a valued passenger but as luggage, then she could have shamed the perpetrators by saving the ship.

    Cordovan and Ruby cheat and attack each other at enormous risk for other people but essentially nothing happens and they just make friends at the end.

    At least they could have had a wrongdoers pact. If you do not blabb about my air piracy I will not blabb about your misuse of equipment and overreacting *wink* - Deal


    There are also massive changes in the pace of the narrative. Before V3 the show was light-hearted with a very low global threat level and no danger to characters lives.

    In V3 the authors ramped up to a high global threat level (villains taking out a CCT tower, leveling an academy and bagging a maiden) and also a high threat level for protagonist characters (one B and one C taken out, an A losing a limb).

    Then abruptly the threat level falls back to the level of V1 and V2 (villains scoring no success on global ressources for 3 volumes. they even fail explicitly with an attempt on the second maiden and the associated relic. One villain faction self destructs because of incompetent leadership).


    Finally sometimes the show fails on its core selling point which is the visuals of the fight scenes. They definitely have an edge over the average anime in this area. But failed to deliver in the Haven fight despite hints to the opposite ("The more the merrier") and also in the last episode of V6 which was also explicitly hyped.

    I get the feeling in this case, Jinn was pushing the limit of what she could tell, without requiring another question. The question was "what is Ozpin hiding" for all we know, Ozma himself never knew why she was locked away, or the answer to that is still preserved in fairy tale. It wasn't a sob story, yes it was sad, but that wasn't the point, the point was to show she's manipulative and unrelenting, 

  • AenarTenthSkraeling

    AenarTenthSkraeling FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757258 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    Also not everything needs to have an explanation. Why Salem's dad locked her in a tower is not important, only that her being locked in a tower was what caused her to meet Ozma and be so unused to loss that she couldn't handle his death. 


    Star Wars did not need to tell people anything about what actually happened in the Clone Wars or why the Emperor was evil for the original movie trilogy to work. In fact a lot of people ended up liking the franchise better when that stuff was left unexplained.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757270 - 2 months ago

    One thing RWBY does much better than the Avatar franchise, is death, in ATLA, the one time they didn't simply capture someone, but actually killed them, (Jet) they had to explain it the next season, in LOK they didn't really come close to a death that you could really care about, until book 4, and I am not talking about the redemption death we saw coming before we really knew what the conflict was for the season, I am talking about the wonderfully set up, beautifully choreographed, with the perfect music for the situation, hero death that Bolin ruined. Compare that with RWBY, You have Penny, the shocker death of a character that had plans. Torchwick, just as he was hinting at his motivations. Pyrrha the perfect tragic hero, lingering death. Random huntsman in vol 4, who dies when they are trying to figure out what to do to save him, Ren's Parents. vol 5, you have the people in airships that weren't Weiss, You have Sienna (which shows just what kind of messed up Adam is). You have all the huntsmen and huntresses Qrow looks for, especially pointed with the widower and his daughter. I am going to ignore Fennec, as a more run of the mill action death, so that leaves Leo, Vader has nothing on Salem when it comes to disposing of ineffective subordinates. Vol 6 you have the bodies at the farm, which tell a story, and Adam who's death is important because of the narrative significance to Blake and Yang 

  • seedfan85

    seedfan85

    #33757279 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    Ozma's knowledge of the reason that Salem was locked in the tower is irrelevant for Jinn to possess the knowledge of the reason. The Relic of Knowledge, can answer any three questions every hundred years. That means that she possesses access to the collective subconscious and preserves the memories and can draw links between them to extrapolate conclusions, like that it is impossible for Ozma's incarnations to kill Salem. The point of that backstory, may have been to show that she's manipulative and unrelenting, but we already knew that, so, no matter how well that was depicted, it was ultimately pointless in that regard. Now when I said that it was a sob story, I pointed that out because it didn't need to be. Sad backstories, are a trope that is designed to make the audience sympathize with a villain that, by all rights, shouldn't be, thereby making you care when the inevitable happens and they get beaten by the hero. The problem with that in relation to Ruby though, is that over the years there have been many dictators that have committed evil acts that don't have a sad backstory that has propelled them to their current actions, and each and every time that they have been taken down, people have celebrated their downfall, making it, no matter how well animated (and it was), unnecessary for the story.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757305 - 2 months ago

    In reply to seedfan85


    But it wasn't related to what was asked, and wasn't important, It would have just been expositing 

  • BakedBrain

    BakedBrain FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757318 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    It is important for the running the responsibility chain to the very bottom, and it is also main world story.

    A "cruel" father who happens to get the idea of locking his daughter into a tower to troll adventurers and turn her into a madwomen is rather thin in motivation.

    A powermonger who wants world domination is self explanatory, there are enough real life examples.


    And God of Light's motivation to task Ozma with fighting Salem is also shady.

    He did nothing wrong, becoming ill or being the object of life on-offing is not his responsibility. This is shared between the "cruel" father and Gods. God of Light may have been right about the meaning of life and death, but his way of communicating this principle to a desperate women was inappropriate to say the least.

    So to resurrect him and set his mindfucked wife on his back for centuries was not particularly nice.


  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757320 - 2 months ago

    In reply to BakedBrain

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    It is important for the running the responsibility chain to the very bottom, and it is also main world story.

    A "cruel" father who happens to get the idea of locking his daughter into a tower to troll adventurers and turn her into a madwomen is rather thin in motivation.

    A powermonger who wants world domination is self explanatory, there are enough real life examples.


    And God of Light's motivation to task Ozma with fighting Salem is also shady.

    He did nothing wrong, becoming ill or being the object of life on-offing is not his responsibility. This is shared between the "cruel" father and Gods. God of Light may have been right about the meaning of life and death, but his way of communicating this principle to a desperate women was inappropriate to say the least.

    So to resurrect him and set his mindfucked wife on his back for centuries was not particularly nice.


    The answers to those questions wouldn't really change anything, and that episode was straddling the line between "show" and "tell", enough as it is. 

  • seedfan85

    seedfan85

    #33757323 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    The question asked, was what is Ozpin hiding from us, and yes, I agree that it would have been pointless exposition, but that wasn't the point of what I was saying. The main point, was that Ozpin's knowledge of what lead to Salem being locked up was irrelevant for Jinn to possess the knowledge of it. Beyond that though, they were married for years and had multiple children together. It is highly unrealistic, to say the least, that the subject never came up even once.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757348 - 2 months ago

    In reply to seedfan85

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    The question asked, was what is Ozpin hiding from us, and yes, I agree that it would have been pointless exposition, but that wasn't the point of what I was saying. The main point, was that Ozpin's knowledge of what lead to Salem being locked up was irrelevant for Jinn to possess the knowledge of it. Beyond that though, they were married for years and had multiple children together. It is highly unrealistic, to say the least, that the subject never came up even once.

    It is however relevant to what she could talk about, she is a being of ultimate knowledge, but that doesn't mean there aren't limits to what she can tell on a single question

  • Dinobot01

    Dinobot01 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757432 - 2 months ago

    Has anyone thought of the possibility that Jaunes fathers name is Noah?  Noah Arc?

  • Whiterosepetal

    Whiterosepetal

    #33757547 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Dinobot01 Would be a fun reference.

  • seedfan85

    seedfan85

    #33757610 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    In reply to seedfan85

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    The question asked, was what is Ozpin hiding from us, and yes, I agree that it would have been pointless exposition, but that wasn't the point of what I was saying. The main point, was that Ozpin's knowledge of what lead to Salem being locked up was irrelevant for Jinn to possess the knowledge of it. Beyond that though, they were married for years and had multiple children together. It is highly unrealistic, to say the least, that the subject never came up even once.

    It is however relevant to what she could talk about, she is a being of ultimate knowledge, but that doesn't mean there aren't limits to what she can tell on a single question

    Which has absolutely nothing to do with the contention that you were making, which was Ozma's possessing knowledge about why Salem was locked in the tower was necessary for Jinn to be aware of it.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757630 - 2 months ago

    In reply to seedfan85

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    In reply to seedfan85


    In reply to MichaelHalpe


    The question asked, was what is Ozpin hiding from us, and yes, I agree that it would have been pointless exposition, but that wasn't the point of what I was saying. The main point, was that Ozpin's knowledge of what lead to Salem being locked up was irrelevant for Jinn to possess the knowledge of it. Beyond that though, they were married for years and had multiple children together. It is highly unrealistic, to say the least, that the subject never came up even once.


    It is however relevant to what she could talk about, she is a being of ultimate knowledge, but that doesn't mean there aren't limits to what she can tell on a single question

    Which has absolutely nothing to do with the contention that you were making, which was Ozma's possessing knowledge about why Salem was locked in the tower was necessary for Jinn to be aware of it.

    No that wasn't the point i was making, Jinn probably knows just about everything, that isn't the point, however there is only so much she can tell with any given question, why Salem was locked away has very little relevance to Ozpin hiding the fact that he can't destroy Salem. Going back to when he first met her is stretching the backing context as it is.

  • Dinobot01

    Dinobot01 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757784 - 2 months ago

    Now hear this!!! The next episode of Death Battle is a match between Mitsuru Kirijo of Persona 3 and her opponent is our very own Ice Queen, Weiss Schnee!!!!   


    Don't miss it!!!

  • seedfan85

    seedfan85

    #33757884 - 1 month ago

    I'd much rather see their take on Hinata vs Sakura (Both from Naruto) or Blake vs Weiss.

  • Dinobot01

    Dinobot01 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757892 - 1 month ago

    In reply to seedfan85

    I think a rule from Death Battle is that the fighter must be from different franchises

  • Ace-of-Rogues

    Ace-of-Rogues FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Main Weapon: Rapier Wit

    #33757900 - 1 month ago

    In reply to Dinobot01

    Unless it's a Battle-Royal. That's the only time they draw all the contenders from a single franchise.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33757910 - 1 month ago

    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    In reply to Dinobot01

    Unless it's a Battle-Royal. That's the only time they draw all the contenders from a single franchise.

    well there was Carolina vs Meta

  • Ace-of-Rogues

    Ace-of-Rogues FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Main Weapon: Rapier Wit

    #33757923 - 1 month ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    Ah, right.

  • EmperorLuffy

    EmperorLuffy

    #33758187 - 1 month ago

    Cinder should not die here. It'd be a waste to kill her so soon. I want to see Neo become an ally though. 


    One major thing I'm hoping for is the Heroes suffering a crushing defeat at the hands of Salem. Ending With Ruby or Jaune captured. 

    This way we can take a break from dealing with the main plot and build our way back up to it giving the characters room for development as well as fleshing out the world in the process.


    I don't want shipping moments. If you're going to write romance. Write romance. Not shipping. 



  • Ace-of-Rogues

    Ace-of-Rogues FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Main Weapon: Rapier Wit

    #33758190 - 1 month ago

    In reply to EmperorLuffy

    I definitely want Salem to get some face time with Our Heroes, although a capture seems a bit premature unless it's the season-finale cliff-hanger or if someone like Watts catches them and Salem isn't there in person. Crushing defeat is definitely on the table though, probably with Oz making a reappearance just long enough to get them a window of opportunity to escape.

  • EmperorLuffy

    EmperorLuffy

    #33758192 - 1 month ago

    In reply to Ace-of-Rogues

    I only suggest capture for Ruby or Jaune because it puts Ruby in a situation where she's forced to interact with and develop some sort of relationship with the main Antagonist. While we could watch the others struggle to keep things together without her showing how integral she was to the group. 

    For Jaune it was mostly because 99% of the fanbase hates him and it would be a great way to keep him out of the story for an extended period. Maybe even torture him a little. lol. But it also promises a potential scenario where the "Knight" has to be saved by the "Princesses". 


    All in all a defeat here allows for the story to be extended. Which I feel is necessary because the current time constraints don't allow for proper character development and worldbuilding. The Villains(maybe even the rest of the world) would think them dead and the Heroes would be forced to rise up. To grow stronger. Potentially allow them to interfere with Salem without her ever knowing it was them.