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The one critisim I have about RWBY

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  • avatarconner

    avatarconner FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755494 - 2 months ago

    I love this show, I understand that there are some flaws with it like any show on the air, I just usually look past them and look at the show as a whole. But there's one thing (well two but the first one is so minor and so early on that I kinda just poke fun of it now) that I really can't get over. It's Blake and Yang, not that I don't like either of them or the bee ship but I think feel like everything with them since Alone Together last volume has been way too.......easy. 


    I mean Yang, a character who has shown to have serious abandonment issues stemming from her birth mother leaving her and her father, was rightfully angry and mad at Blake for leaving her after Adam hurt her and shattered her confidence. Blake's reasoning is something that's understandable, in fact it's a pretty common conflict if you look at the super hero genre, in which someone threatens her loved ones and goes onto disable one of them. And I don't even mind her response in running away, what my problem is that everyone is instantly accepting of her choice because 'She feels guilty about what happened.'


    To me, guilt does not in always warrant forgiveness, if you clip someone's car and are genuinely sorry? That's one thing, it's a human mistake that anyone can make. But Blake left her partner, whom had shared her issues with in a attempt to help Blake through her own, after she had been mortally wounded trying to protect her and she runs away? The pretense being that she does it to protect Yang and them but in reality it's just too late, Yang is already hurt and running away made it worse. Now I'm not demonizing Blake, there is debate on whether she really had a choice in leaving because of her outlook on the situation and that's better saved for another time. Blake is scared and goes home because she wants a place where she can feel safe, that's understandable and really human so I don't have a problem there.


    However the issue I find with all this is how the response is from her other team members. 


    Ruby and Blake haven't had a lot a time together in comparison, and we don't really see much of what Blake's leaving meant to her, which in retrospect Is sort of weird but considering the sparse screen time they have together, it's not unsurprising.


     Weiss and Blake have had a more complex relationship due to Blake's species but Weiss puts faith in Blake that honestly is somewhat fitting since she was in a similar situation with her father. 


    But Yang's is what frustrates me so much! I mean her and Weiss's conversation about being alone and being left is great and I love that they share that with one another but the ending to it is what drives me nuts. Yang has had a more personal relationship with Blake than Weiss had, and her leaving really only affected Yang because of how much Blake meant to her. Weiss trying to be positive and give faith that Blake will return isn't wrong or anything but the fact that Yang blindly agrees with her is what frustrates me so much! Yang was left in a state of depression because of BOTH Blake and Adam's actions, while Adam's had a bodily and psychological effect on her, Blake's was emotionally wrenching. 


    Blake isn't responsible for what Adam did to Yang, she is responsible for what SHE did to Yang. And she doesn't face any consequences for it. Yes she blames herself and feels guilty about what she did but that does not instantly remove her of her effect it had on Yang. Where she should have been criticized or perhaps ostracized by Yang in the Volume 5 finale, she is instead welcomed back as though she's absolved of all that she directly did to Yang. Whether it was her choice or not there is never any feelings of betrayal or wrongdoing on Yang's part where there organically would be.


    Blake is not the villain but she is acted as a force that in the grand scheme of things wounded Yang, her reunion with Yang shouldn't be met with open arms because Weiss conveyed her feelings of family that her team brings to Yang but should be met with a criticism by Yang on why she left, is it ok for her to return after doing such damage to her, and if she should even trust Blake again.  


    I approached Volume 6 with a cautious optimism and that perhaps due to time they couldn't flesh out that reunion and subsequent conflict. However the only hint we get about that conflict is that when Yang is doing a simple task she inserts herself as a way of recompense. It's a interesting idea but Yang's fallowing speech about how 'Things will be ok eventually' lessen the impact of Blake's actions. The next scene we get is the infamous Barn scene where Yang an Blake have the first time they've been alone together since Burning Candle. Blake assures Yang that she isn't leaving.......but Yang has no reason to believe that. Instead her frustration comes from Blake thinking she's incapable of protecting herself. 


    It does fallow up on the scene from the Argus Express, however I personally found it to come from out of nowhere since Yang has shown herself to be perfectly capable on the Train during their fight with the Grimm right in front of Blake. Again it's something I personally didn't understand so it might have clicked with others. But the fact that she says that she's not leaving seems far more potent than 'I'll protect you.' 


    And the most frustrating of all is that after this scene where there is clearly tension between the two? It's gone after that, the next time they're together their banter is light and friendly, almost flirtatious. Which while satisfying to see, is also somewhat jarring considering the last time they were together. 


    The fallowing fight with Adam however is personally flawless, and strangely cathartic as Adam throws out criticisms at Blake which aren't entirely unfounded from his point of view. But because they are from Adam, they're given a toxic standpoint and are ordained as hate on the character where they could be actual points of debate. IS Blake a coward? Up until her return to RWY in Volume 5 it could be argued that she is but ultimately overcome it. She does run away from trouble in a number of points but she later recognizes it as a flaw and works to correct it.


    They're legit criticisms of Blake. However because they're from Adam as a mouthpiece, they're thrown off as simply spiteful words. Not that Adam, a manipulator and abuser who constantly resorts to violence to get what he wants, should be taken as model in any sense. 


    I still hold out hope that things are not settled between Blake and Yang and that their will be some conflict in their relationship due to Blake's leaving since that is what hurt Yang the most. But if not then that's fine as well, there might have been scenes where they talked but had to be cut in order for more important scenes like the Pyrrha statue scene or the Apathy to take place. That's how these shows work, content has to be cut in order to shorten the run time. I just wished that the conflict between them was put on a higher point that it is.


    This is mainly my own personal issue with a singular point in the show, and if you agree or dissagree don't be afraid to leave a comment and explain your own view. I love talking about this show and the Bee's relationship especially.

  • HokutoYangSoup

    HokutoYangSoup

    #33755530 - 2 months ago

    In reply to avatarconner


    You're not wrong. I too have an issue with Yang and Blake relationship.

    I honestly wish Adam can at least seriously wound her before dying since Blake NEVER experience any consequence for her actions, and Yang suddenly forgives her despite what she says during Vol 5, oh and her fake PTSD.

  • TheRedJoka7

    TheRedJoka7 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold TheRedJoka

    #33755536 - 2 months ago

    I dont think its that big of an issue. Still not convinced that they are an item yet anyway

  • avatarconner

    avatarconner FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755546 - 2 months ago

    In reply to HokutoYangSoup I don't think the PTSD is fake, granted I don't know how PTSD manifests for some people. But yeah it's really frustrating because whenever I bring this up, People's first response is that it wasn't Blake's fault what happened to Yang. Which isn't wrong, Adam is responsible for what he did, not Blake. 

    But the usually response is that because of Blake's experience with Abuse, of which it's natural for victims to try and isolate themselves from their friends and family. And fair enough for that, that's understandable, but it's frustrating because.....personally I don't see how Yang could easily forgive Blake for leaving.

  • avatarconner

    avatarconner FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755547 - 2 months ago

    In reply to TheRedJoka7 In the grand scheme of things? Probably not, and they would have worked it out eventually, but i think that they set up Yang being mad at blake for leaving but the reason she moves on makes no sense to me.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755554 - 2 months ago

    In reply to avatarconner


    On Blake, Yang has always tried to focus on "in the now" because when she didn't, she almost got herself and Ruby killed, as she explains in vol 2, she was mad until her talk with Weiss, but now that they are together again, being mad would serve no purpose, in addition it would be counter productive to keeping Blake around.

  • avatarconner

    avatarconner FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755558 - 2 months ago

    That's true and keeping with her character, but I don't get how that talking it out with WEISS and not Blake herself is what helps her past it. I mean ok she gains some new perspective on Blake's situation but in all fairness, how the hell does Weiss even know what Blake is going though? Like that part is what gets me, she doesn't know for a fact she can only infer from what she knows (which isn't much) and even then why the hell does Yang take her at her word for that? I mean it just doesn't make sense to me.


    I mean honest to god I wouldn't be as frustated if at all, if Blake talked to Yang and explained herself and Yang was like "Ok, I mean that hurt me but I can understand why you did what you did." and I'd honestly be cool with that. But they don't, THEY NEVER TALK ABOUT BLAKE LEAVING. I mean damnit I'm glad things are where they are right now but it just makes no fucking sense to me.


    And it might just be me, it very well could be. But it feels like they could have turned right to get to this point but instead they went around the block to do it and it was a bumpy road you know?

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755588 - 2 months ago

    In reply to avatarconner

    You do realize Wriss and Blake for 7-8 months slept, ate, studied, and fought together right? And you are suggesting that they don't know each other inside and out?


  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755590 - 2 months ago

    In reply to HokutoYangSoup

    In reply to avatarconner


    You're not wrong. I too have an issue with Yang and Blake relationship.

    I honestly wish Adam can at least seriously wound her before dying since Blake NEVER experience any consequence for her actions, and Yang suddenly forgives her despite what she says during Vol 5, oh and her fake PTSD.



    Hate to break it to you but apparently people who have actually suffered from PTSD have testified as the portrayal with Yang being accurate for their experience.

  • Sirgeoffington

    Sirgeoffington

    #33755599 - 2 months ago

    Personally I quite like the arc they took, it was just more subtle than people were expecting. What I don't think people realise is that Yang had months to rebuild her mental state in between the end of Season 3 and the end of 5 and in that time she had Ruby (after they are reunited) to wear down the angst she had towards Blake. Having someone so jovial and forgiving always around you is a massive underline emotionally, even if it is only for a short while. I also feel Tai had a similar sort of stand point, he is a beacon of maturity and humour for Yang in the months leading up to her departure for Mistral. Not to mention the fact that Blake appears right after a battle in which they all narrowly won and with the emotional weight of dealing with the fight, Weiss almost dying and fully confronting her biggest antagonistic issue (Raven) she is just happy that everyone is ok and together.

    I also feel the train/Brunswick arc is super important to this, as it still shows little hints of Yang's insecurity and bitterness, so it isn't all roses and happiness. There are definite kinks that are worked out over time, culminating in the big show of personal growth both Yang and Blake show in the fight with Adam in Argus. All in all it shows Yang's new found maturity and that she also knows sort of why Blake left and realises that there are bigger things to concentrate her mind on that require them all together as a group. Given her previously... temperamental personality its a massive growth point, close to as good as we can get with the amount of screen time they had.

    But, as you said, i think the main reason we didn't get more development in this is time. It's a massive shame that these things suffer due to the tight constraints the company put on the CRWBY but that's the way it goes unfortunately. This is why I really like the route they took, imagine a few more issues between them happen off screen on the journey to Argus and it fits in, but this is the main reason people find it jarring, not the "bad writing" many people make it out to be.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33755600 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    Here's the thing: real life ultimately takes a backseat to the setting of fiction, in regards to the characters inhabiting the setting.  The writers set up MAJOR trauma that was all but stated to be affecting her health heavily.  Narratively, that should have taken far more than training with her father and Weiss "talking her out of her anger with Blake" to resolve.  Also, that's THEIR experience, and they DON'T speak for everyone who has PTSD.  As far as the narrative was concerned, Yang's PTSD ultimately did not affect her in any significant way, especially during moments where it would have had the most narrative impact.  Just a shake now and then during "resting moments" to show us that "she's suffering".  Please.  Legend of Korra showed far more narrative impact for Korra's PTSD than Yang ever did.  Massive build-up, no pay-off.

  • Sirgeoffington

    Sirgeoffington

    #33755601 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    In reply to HokutoYangSoup

    In reply to avatarconner

    You're not wrong. I too have an issue with Yang and Blake relationship.

    I honestly wish Adam can at least seriously wound her before dying since Blake NEVER experience any consequence for her actions, and Yang suddenly forgives her despite what she says during Vol 5, oh and her fake PTSD.


    Hate to break it to you but apparently people who have actually suffered from PTSD have testified as the portrayal with Yang being accurate for their experience.

    This. Fake PTSD is absolute crap and if anyone even bothers in the slightest to think about and look in to mental health issues they would know that they manifest differently for everyone. Yang's issues are a perfect example of PTSD in one of its many forms, it doesn't have to be crippling, its just there and that's all that matters.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33755603 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Sirgeoffington

    Even before they gained corporate overlords, they'd been putting those time restrictions on themselves.  They have only themselves to blame.  Oh, and their fans for accepting "off-screen character development" over and over again.

  • WrightKnight

    WrightKnight

    #33755604 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Sirgeoffington

    Again, in terms of the narrative and how much it was built up initially compared to how it actually was used, it's effectively "fake".

  • Sirgeoffington

    Sirgeoffington

    #33755605 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    Agree on that point, but I do wonder how much that was Monty just being Monty (God bless his soul), we all know what he was like in his work ethic. Off-screen development, while the cause is theirs alone, is an unfortunately unavoidable issue now if the plot is to keep moving at a consistent pace. Personally I don't mind it as I like filling in things with my own imagination, but I completely understand people that don't.

    On the PTSD, honestly I expected it to go where it did. Not least because I have a family friend that was in a relatively similar situation, but also because I always felt it would be a growth factor for Yang, rather than a debilitating issue when she inevitably came to face Adam again. She knew she was better than before and she understood both her capabilities and his and as such was in a much better position to fight him without giving in to her emotions. It was also used to show that despite her turmoil, she understands now that she can't face the world alone thanks to Tai. It proves that her two face downs with Raven and the battle of Haven have helped her overcome her shortcomings and strengthen her resolve to protect those she is close to. Her mentality is shifting to a more boisterous, grim version of Ruby, an ironic situation given Ruby was the least mature and most insecure at the start of the series.

    Don't get me wrong, it could have been handled better, but personally I think it was handled pretty well given the time they had and the volatility of a subject such as mental health.

  • HokutoYangSoup

    HokutoYangSoup

    #33755608 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight that is what tires me to no end. People accepting off screen development. All this headcanon explanation cover the writer's fuck up is exactly what keeps RWBY critic, aka haters like adel and fatmanfalling, coming back. Even more after that.

  • HokutoYangSoup

    HokutoYangSoup

    #33755609 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Sirgeoffington


    Okay? Is it from the people you know or is it some random people on the internet claiming to have one? Regardless, what's done is done. yang will be viewed in a bad way by many other fans who thinks different otherwise.

    What's next, the whole schnee dust company and atlas turn out to be a Disney villain and giving excuse for their supposed superior technology as seen with Titan fight and their discrimination against Faunus?


    I am not fucking looking forward to vol 7.

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755613 - 2 months ago

    In reply to HokutoYangSoup 


    If you can't stand off screen development, read a webcomic, because timeskips are inevitable elsewhere, but it's not like there has been major development changes off screen that you wouldn't possibly expect

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755615 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    Here's the thing: real life ultimately takes a backseat to the setting of fiction, in regards to the characters inhabiting the setting.  The writers set up MAJOR trauma that was all but stated to be affecting her health heavily.  Narratively, that should have taken far more than training with her father and Weiss "talking her out of her anger with Blake" to resolve.  Also, that's THEIR experience, and they DON'T speak for everyone who has PTSD.  As far as the narrative was concerned, Yang's PTSD ultimately did not affect her in any significant way, especially during moments where it would have had the most narrative impact.  Just a shake now and then during "resting moments" to show us that "she's suffering".  Please.  Legend of Korra showed far more narrative impact for Korra's PTSD than Yang ever did.  Massive build-up, no pay-off.


    With Yang the payoff is that she learns that she isn't involnerable, the plot doesn't center around her it centers around her team as a whole, 

  • avatarconner

    avatarconner FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755619 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe I'm not denying that they're not close, but her leaving didn't effect Weiss the same way it did Yang. I mean yeah you can obviously probably tell what someone whose close to you would think after a while, but Weiss speaks as though Blake explained everything to her. Granted it could be because Weiss has abuse in her own life and is speaking from that which if the case, then I totally buy that. But from Yang's perspective, her partner who she trusted deeply, left her after sacrificing a part of herself for six months ago with no explination or even a goodbye. I mean if you were in her shoes would so easily let go of that?

  • avatarconner

    avatarconner FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755620 - 2 months ago

    In reply to Sirgeoffington Oh no your right about the writing, I understand that they probably had more in depth plans for Yang and Blake's reconciliation that had to be cut out due to time and budget. I mean they originally planned for 14 episodes but they had to trim one off. That alone shows that they had more content that, after looking at it and the grand narrative this volume, wouldn't flow right. That was a complaint of last volume with the finale, they were going for a battle of attrition but because it took four epsiodes it felt more like it was dragged out. 

    I do really hope things aren't totally cut and dry, that Yang will address the fact that Blake did leave her once and it's hard for her to trust her again. Like if they do actually go full Bumblebee next volume and Yang is the one to pull away because of what Blake did, then I would really love that. Not because I don't like the bees but it honestly felt way too easy for them to get back in sync.

  • avatarconner

    avatarconner FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755621 - 2 months ago

    In reply to WrightKnight Well PTSD can vary from person to person as I understand it, and yeah the LoK depiction of it was really well put together. But I think what ultimately set Yang and Korra's experiences with it apart was for Korra no one knew what she was going through and how to help her. Ultimately it was Zaheer, the man who did it to her in the first place that helps her past her turama. Yang had her father to help her out from the beginning, then weiss and ruby, and ultimately blake at the end. 

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755624 - 2 months ago

    In reply to avatarconner

    In reply to Sirgeoffington Oh no your right about the writing, I understand that they probably had more in depth plans for Yang and Blake's reconciliation that had to be cut out due to time and budget. I mean they originally planned for 14 episodes but they had to trim one off. That alone shows that they had more content that, after looking at it and the grand narrative this volume, wouldn't flow right. That was a complaint of last volume with the finale, they were going for a battle of attrition but because it took four epsiodes it felt more like it was dragged out. 
    I do really hope things aren't totally cut and dry, that Yang will address the fact that Blake did leave her once and it's hard for her to trust her again. Like if they do actually go full Bumblebee next volume and Yang is the one to pull away because of what Blake did, then I would really love that. Not because I don't like the bees but it honestly felt way too easy for them to get back in sync.

     

    I can argue we saw the reconciliation if you are willing to accept that music is an important part of the story telling of RWBY, we can infer that between talking to Weiss and Blake showing up at Haven, Yang had already decided that she'll "risk it once again to have [Blake] by [her] side", that leaves Blake, who at the beginning of Vol 6 is adorably trying too hard and overcompensating, then at the barn Yang establishes limits to Blake's role in their relationship (mutual partnership), and during the fight with Adam, Blake acknowledges the mutual partnership, and reaffirms her promise not to leave Yang again. Just cause it didn't happen at once doesn't mean it didn't happen

  • MichaelHalpe

    MichaelHalpe FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33755626 - 2 months ago

    I think they will work their way to full BB in vol 7, once in Atlas with the Relic locked away, they will have the perception of safety, they might even resume their official training, during that time, they should have more opportunity to shift to more character focus episodes. They have more than hinted that racism is more than a little problem in Atlas for instance, at least for the higher ups, that will give context for plenty of scenes between them.

  • HokutoYangSoup

    HokutoYangSoup

    #33755663 - 2 months ago

    In reply to MichaelHalpe

    That is if you never read or watch any other series that also has similar content and flaws beside this. and keep on encouraging the writers to keep shoehorning without taking any criticism.