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Hear me out on this.

Posts (6)

  • Shadow_Leaper

    Shadow_Leaper FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Shadow

    #33758094 - 2 weeks ago

    Okay, so I get that the end goal of humanity is to stop the Grimm, and Salem, as far as we know, but... Why? Think about it economically. How many people would lose their jobs? Or would be forced to downsize. Huntsmen and Huntresses would have no purpose, weaponsmiths, scientists focuses on combating the Grimm, etc. All these people, thousands, more than likely out of a job. Then what? People who have specialized in one thing their whole lives, forced to get new jobs that arent even there yet, due to the long process of expansion. I mean, essentially, the Grimm help the current economy more than they hurt it. And this would be on a planetary scale, all the Kingdoms, even outside of them, mass expansion, so costly. Please, someone explain how stopping the Grimm benefits people more than it doesn't. Somebody, weigh the pros and cons, because I simply don't see the "new era" of no Grimm being any better than our own current economy right now.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33758098 - 2 weeks ago

    In reply to Shadow_Leaper

    Interesting viewpoint, now that you pointed it out I'm also curious to see how the end of the show will deal with this. I'll go from worst to best scenario from my perspective. The Gods and magic play a central role.

    1) The show ends before Salem and the Grimms are defeated. All heroes are defeated and/or killed. I don't know how or why it would happen but there goes the worst scenario for me. We don't even hear from the Gods.

    2) The Gods are summoned back but their judgement is not in favor of humanity (still divided, still wars, Salem still Salem etc...). Humanity is wiped out. The Grimms rule (or not, depends on the mood of the God of Darkness).

    3) Salem and the Grimms are eventually defeated, the Gods are summoned back and their judgement is in favor of humanity but the show ends almost immediatly after. We only get to see the remaining survivors (heroes and "previous" vilains) ready to start a new peaceful life but we don't know exactly what this life will be. This is the first easy happy ending.

    4) Same as previous but this time, the Gods bring back the ability to control magic for the people. The Grimms are wiped out. No problem of employment with magic around and no conflicts in perspective (as humanity proved it has become one and is supposed to remain so). Second version of easy happy ending.

    5) Same as previous but this time, the Grimms remain as a permanent test for humanity. Huntress and huntresses' status only evolve, they become the ones allowed to use magic (besides their regular aura and semblances) to protect everyone from the Grimms besides regular security. The police's status evolve similarly, they can use magic to ensure regular security. Regular people can also use magic but only for business and daily life activities, they can use it as self defense against Grimms. Magic can be either self-taught or from parents to children or at schools and academies (where special classes are created for future police members and huntress & huntresses).

    6) Same as previous but schools and academies are the only places where magic can be taught and the only ones able to deliver a certificate for magic use. Any use of magic without this certificate is illegal. A "wizard" status is created to regulate the use of magic within business and daily life activities. This status can only be delivered by academies.

  • Shadow_Leaper

    Shadow_Leaper FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Shadow

    #33758108 - 2 weeks ago

    In reply to Velrak Well yeah but, this is even assuming the Brothers can even work well together. All it takes is one person to point out that the God of Light made it so that he would be the one shrouded in glory, because he is essentially "life" and the god of Darkness will more than likely turn on him. We've already seen them argue, so they're susceptible to human emotion, therefore it honestly wouldn't be so hard to turn one against the other. If only a god can kill a god, then... Well you get what im saying. Maybe the end goal... Isnt as clear as we think it is.

  • jj41

    jj41 FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold

    #33758111 - 2 weeks ago

    In reply to Shadow_Leaper

    That just gave me a thought, could that be Salem's end goal? To get one god to kill the other? This whole time I was trying to figure out why Salem would want the relics, and then we found out what would happen when they are all brought together. If the gods show up now they will without a doubt wipe out humanity or the world of Remnant all together. At first Salem wanted to die so she could be with Ozpin, but that can't be her goal anymore. With Ozpin constantly reincarnating and how he also betrayed Salem (in Salem's point of view anyway) I've always wondered what could she need the relics for. If she could call down the gods and trick them into attacking and having one of them be killed she would view that as a victory. If only one of them is needed to take away her immortality then she will defiantly die with the rest of humanity (again) following the reaming gods wrath, but I think Salem would still see that as a victory. She was able to get back at the gods for the 'prison' they put her in. I know this is very off topic from the OT but this thought just popped in my head after reading Shadow_Leaper's post.

  • Shadow_Leaper

    Shadow_Leaper FIRST Member Star(s) Indication of membership status - One star is a FIRST member, two stars is Double Gold Shadow

    #33758112 - 2 weeks ago

    In reply to jj41 Now don't get me wrong, that is a very good point. But consider this. Salem wanted to rule over everyone, right? Because she and Oz were the only ones who could use real magic. Personally, i think Oz was stupid to deny her that. Not only would it have prevented what is essentially the Grimm uprising, but also, they could have prevented racism toward faunus, there likely wouldnt be any (spoilers but if you havent seen v6, cmon, really?) Mutated Grimm, and humanity could have slowly expanded, or at the very least, had an easier job mining for more dust. And lets be honest here, faunus are humans. You wouldnt consider someone with a scar any less human, or someone with a different skin tone, certainly not in the show. And another thing i'm going to rant about. (To be honest i read too much fanfic so it gets hard to tell whats in the show and whats made up, but this is a constant) Menagerie is essentially Australia, mostly uninhabitable. A good portion of it is, what, desert? We've seen the battleships that Atlas has. Do you know how much dirt they could carry? How much fertile dirt, and how few trips it would take carrying that much to cover the rest of Menagerie? A lot of dirt and not too many trips. Something like that would absolutely have prevented the violence of the White Fang, or at least delayed it long enough to slowly reintroduce faunus into society, not as monsters, but people. And let's be honest with ourselves here. Grimm are able to be controlled by Salem, and can be told not to attack certain people, right? She could easily bring most, if not all, faunus to her side by granting them peace and safety from the Grimm. And in all her years as who she is, Queen of the Grimm, not once has she tried to go public? She could have easily overtaken a kingdom or two, assuming she let the world know someone was controlling the Grimm, the fear, anxiety, uneasiness that would cause. Stuff would go down, and fast. So that begs the question. Why hasn't she? We may never know.

  • Velrak

    Velrak

    #33758322 - 1 week ago

    In reply to Shadow_Leaper

    You're right to bring up Salem into the equation, I only focused on one version of the end goal, primarly the heroes version where the Gods are back and judge humanity as they intend. Salem could change that of course.

    Also back to your first message, it is clear to me that the absence of Grimm would reshape Remnant completely economically and socially speaking. Division amongst humans could still create tensions and wars (basically like here on Earth) to justify the presence of Huntsman and Huntresses academies and scientific research for military and security purposes.


    In reply to jj41

    In reply to Shadow_Leaper

    To this day, I still hesitate about what Salem's motivation really is. Is it power ? Is it vengeance ? Is it both ?

    If it is power, then I would say she is trying to gather the relics in order to either destroy them or control them so that the Gods are never summoned back and so that she can rule Remnant forever (although we lack infos about how the gathering of relics and Gods' summoning really work).

    If it is vengeance, then I have to ask for what and towards who ? The Gods for not bringing back Ozpin back in the days ? The God of Light for making her immortal ? Ozpin for betraying her (from her perspective) ? All of this ?

    My personal take at this moment would be vengeance and power: Salem wants the relics to bring back the Gods and kill them somehow as well as Ozpin so that she could rule Remnant forever.


    But I don't even like this last option because it makes Salem stupid. She still thinks she could kill the Gods ?? Even by turning them against one another ? She failed to do so. The Gods are powerful and smart. I'm not saying they can't be defeated but one should be absurdly smart to win against them. Also the TWO Gods are now more than aware of who Salem is. Also, what if killing the God of Light make Salem no more immortal ? (she would then die and no longer be able to rule)


    I hope Salem motivation is a smart combination of power and vengeance: she wants the relics in order to make sure than no one else could use them to bring back the Gods (there is no guarantee that destroying them will not make the Gods come back, like an alert or something). She would want to rule Remnant forever as she said to Ozpin and the only vengeance she would need to accomplish would be towards said Ozpin for betraying her (again from her perspective) and thus jeopardize her potential eternal reign. But she would not want the Gods back, that wouldn't be smart because too risky.

    On the other hand, the heroes' motivation (because it is not clear here either) would be to gather the relics but NOT before they isolated Salem, not before EVERYONE except her is united and living in harmony. That way, they could MAYBE convince the Gods to not eradicate humanity and only punish Salem (and we never know, maybe Salem would then redeem herself at this point).